T-5 performance rebuilding.

[Bob Holmes]

Curiously, we are missing a drivetrain sub-forum, so I'll post this question here.

Anyone have any hints or can point me to information about performance building the T-5? I have to have a syncromesh transmission in order to run AI, so any hints need to encompass that requirement.

[MikeFleming]

At what max RPM do you plan to make shifts? The 3-piece fiber blockers in the WC T5's don't do well >7000 RPM (even over 6500) (do not allow FAST shifts). Other than that it usually just getting the shaft endplay settings correct. There's not much else to adjust and the ratio sets are fairly limited.

[Bob Holmes]

Mike, I'll be shifting under 7,000.

[Patrick]

We can post a T-5 rebuild illustrated tutorial on the main page if it's not there already. I think that I have it buried here somewhere.

[brownsvo]

the pdf floating around somewhere is really helpfull.. i wanted to replace some bearings by the input shaft to get rid of the whine when i get back. doesnt grind, should i just take it to a repair shop and say have at it?

[SVOC]

the pdf floating around somewhere is really helpfull..

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&ved=0CCcQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.allfordmustangs.com%2Ftecharticles%2Ft5 rebuildmanual.pdf&ei=3DyUUL3VGOXH0AGp-ID4Bg&usg=AFQjCNHrwBmriGSjXrygWSRJMfiYR2gL4w&sig2=LG27YWuil-BLPzuK8d7dgQ

[Bob Holmes]

That's certainly the easiest way to do it.

I've decided to learn to rebuild these things given that we'll probably go through a few with the AI car. There are a lot of options that are supposed to increase their longevity. Cryogenic treatment, shot peening, heat treating, etc, etc. I also understand that setting thrust is extremely important.

The thing I'm most interested in is anything that will enhance the shifting. I read at one time, can't find it now, about a technique to bed in the syncros.

[SVOC]

I read at one time, can't find it now, about a technique to bed in the syncros.

I too would like to read this, and do you know if it was carbon, or brass blocking rings they were talking about?

[SVOC]

I've decided to learn to rebuild these things given that we'll probably go through a few with the AI car.

I'm surprised you don't build up a couple to be "Dog Boxes" and just learn to drive without the clutch, on a quick curve and one day at an HPDE, you should have your learning curve down, go home rebuild it throw it back in the car, stuff your two back-ups int the trailer and head out!!
Ooooh watch out nationals here comes Bob!

{edit} Shit, I just realized, your in AI, you can't run a "Dog Box" :/ {/edit}

[SVOC]

Break-in Procedure:


City driving is best because of all the casual shifting that is involved.
Drive gently, let the synchronizers bed-in slowly so they work better and last longer.
Do not attempt to shift fast during the break-in procedure, let the parts bed-in!
Do not accelerate hard in any gear; shot peened gears (http://www.teamrip.com/shot_peening_info.html) need time to bed-in so they don't scuff. After a few hundred miles the machine surface finish of the teeth will be perfect.
Do not launch the car for at least 500 miles; shot peened gears need time to bed-in so they don't scuff. Taking your time with the break-in procedure is important, don't rush it.
Do not force transmission into gear, if transmission blocks any shift, the clutch is not disengaging fully.
The transmission will be a little stiff at first, like a new pair of shoes, but should not block any shifts. If the transmission is blocking any shifts or is difficult to shift into gear from neutral your clutch is not disengaging fully. Understand that the synchros job is to block the shift if the speeds are not synchronized so don't force it into gear. Instead find the source of the problem and correct it. If you need technical assistance with anything transmission related please send us an email so we can help troubleshoot the problem.
Over the course of the hundred miles it should be shifting very well. If you have questions or concerns please contact us, we want you to be happy.
After 500 miles it would be wise to change the transmission oil. Oil recommendations (http://www.teamrip.com/faq.htm)
Synchronizers take time to fully bed in. After a few thousand miles it will be shifting at its best.

A short word about transmission gears. Transmission gears are exceptionally strong and generally have a hardness of 58-62HRC. It is because of their hardness that the gears will take quite a while to fully bed-in together before ultimate power handling capabilities can be obtained. The are several reasons for this and they all revolve around the manufacture's ability to hold tolerance on the parts and to what AGMA or DIN that they cared to produce in the first place. In a perfect world, everything is machined right on the money and you have full and proper contact of the gears that are in mesh but I can assure you that parts are less that perfect and will require some drive time to fully bed-in before you go out there and explore the limits of how much power they can handle without failure. Transmission gears can take as many as 5,000 miles to fully bed themselves in, allowing for full contact and the most strength, and it is wise to let any new or recently rebuilt transmission gears bed-in before pushing the gears to their material limits regardless of what people may tell you.

[SVOC]

A word about synchronizers. Transmission synchronizers, like brake pads, will require some time for their friction surfaces to fully develop. Do not shift a freshly rebuilt transmission fast or at high rpms for this bed-in process requires that you drive the car gently and shift slowly, allowing the synchronizers time to do their job until the surface have developed their full final finish which provides the most friction and ultimately the best shift quality. Just like brake pads, this process doesn't happen quickly and takes a few hundred miles of city driving, where you are shifting through the gears often. During this time you will notice that as you drive & shift through the gears the transmission shift quality will continue to improve as you drive the car.
More about synchronizers. By design, synchronizers will block the driver from completing their shift into any gear, and for that matter, even shifting into a gear in the first place if the speed of the clutch disc, input shaft & various other components doesn’t match the speed of the gear they are shifting into. My expertise is modifying transmissions to shift at extremely high rpms, there is no equal. However it is crucial that your clutch is operating properly, with sufficient release to allow the clutch disc, input shaft & various other components to be “free” of the engine’s rotating speed thus allowing them to slow down and match the speed of the gear you are shifting into. Please make the effort on your part to insure that your transmission shifts at its best by following the above instructions on this page.
The synchros are NOT designed or capable of dealing with a clutch that doesn’t have enough release. If you are having trouble getting into any gears while the car is running or are experiencing blocking or “notchy” shifting; you must check your clutch (http://www.teamrip.com/clutch%20adjustment.html) to make sure that you have it properly adjusted or you will cause damage (http://www.teamrip.com/images/EVO%204-8%20transmissions/03.05.10%20019.jpg) to the synchronizers that is not covered under warranty. Every effort has been taken to ensure that your transmission is capable of shifting at high rpms while retaining long synchro life. It is sole responsibility of the driver or installer to make sure that the clutch is properly adjusted so that is has sufficient release to allow the synchros to do their job without the clutch disc dragging on the flywheel/pressure plate assembly.

[MikeFleming]

I too would like to read this, and do you know if it was carbon, or brass blocking rings they were talking about? WC boxes only have a brass blocker (synchro ring on fifth gear, The to3erh four are either kevlar (redish in color) or carbon (blackish in color) three-piece blockers.

And, in my experience, the 3-piece blockers do not shift as fast as the brass ones - especially at very high RPMS (>7000).

[Bob Holmes]

Jeff, so reading what you've provided, I should swap in my street transmission and bed in new builds on the street car. Interesting.

[brownsvo]

good stuff :)

[Mike S]

According to Hanlon, don't use Royal Purple trans fluid during the break in period. It is too slippery. I learned this after the fact and 2nd gear became notchy after a HPDE at Carolina Motorsport Park.

[SVOC]

Jeff, so reading what you've provided, I should swap in my street transmission and bed in new builds on the street car. Interesting.

I did provide this for thought provoking, an debatable ideas, which is why we have forums,now with that said.

Since I use a street car for one of my track sluts, all parts are used more on the street of course.

B U T

in the case, like you, that I did have a dedicated track car, then yes I would do things such as put miles on the gear box (not a dog box) before putting it in the track car, engine, or even the rear axle for R&P break in.
It is a lot of extra work, but pending of the level of dependability of the use I need, and the budget allotted, I believe this would be applicable.
Big dollar guys, throw the parts in it, and the warm-up lap is the break-in, and drive it till it breaks, yeah I can't afford that, and most of my track duties are no racing situation and only require me to drive between 6/10 and 9/10




According to Hanlon, don't use Royal Purple trans fluid during the break in period. It is too slippery. I learned this after the fact and 2nd gear became notchy after a HPDE at Carolina Motorsport Park.


Although that above was a copy and past for reference, I will say for the T5 have used the cheapest (O'Reilly's) Dex/Merc fluid for the fact less additives and more friction = better working blocking rings and smoother shifting.


Your results may vary, batteries not included, Mike probably thinks I didn't say "red" enough times, and Pat will probably ban me just for the f**k of it.

[MikeFleming]

Your results may vary, batteries not included, Mike probably thinks I didn't say "red" enough times, and Pat will probably ban me just for the f**k of it. That pretty much sums up it right there.

BTW - you're banned.
( until your next post )

[brownsvo]

whats a reputable site to order the small parts from? i found the pull apart shims for the input shaft on i think its t5.com or something like that.. Im not exactly sure what magic shims i would need to shim it with as i cant find them locally (i.e. autozone/oreillys)

Is it advised to replace any of the input shaft bearings while im in there?

[SVOC]

Call my friend James McKeown at http://www.standardtransmission.com/ his number is,

http://www.standardtransmission.com/ST-template/R1a.jpg

[brownsvo]

My special military lower rate phone cards wont let me call 800 numbers lol...Someone must of used it on the sex hotlines and ruined it for everyone else.

I did email him directly and dropped your name :)