2013 Formula 1 thread

[Patrick]

Somebody let Bob Holmes and Raven855 know that this thread exists.

[Bob Holmes]

What, we don't want Tony to post anymore of his misinformed twaddle here...


Luv ya man. LMAO


Next thing he'll be telling us is that Button won't get spanked by Perez in qualifying most of the year.

[MikeFleming]

Next thing he'll be telling us is that Button won't get spanked by Perez in qualifying most of the year. Depends on the weather ...

[Bob Holmes]

Hmmmm, you may have a point.

So if it rains at most races my statement might be incorrect.

[Raven855]

It is shaping up to be a great 2013 year. There are DRS zones during practice and qualifying, some weight adjustments, nose clarifications, stopping on track, and driver changes. Look for Sauber and Mercedes to drop Lotus further down the field.....

[Bob Holmes]

Look for Sauber and Mercedes to drop Lotus further down the field.....

Ok, send me some of that funny stuff you're smoking.

[Patrick]

http://formula-one.speedtv.com/article/f1-bernie-ecclestone-admits-scandal-could-cost-him-series-job/#lf_comment=49871889

[Bob Holmes]

What a great way to live out your twilight years...

[Meotchh]

What a great way to live out your twilight years...

DAMMITT Bob! Keep your Twilight posts outa here!

[MikeFleming]

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2013/01/f138-logo-628.jpg




(http://www.autoblog.com/photos/ferrari-f138-logo/)Don't call it the F150 (http://www.autoblog.com/2011/02/10/report-ferrari-bows-to-ford-legal-pressure-renames-f1-car-f150/). Ferrari (http://www.autoblog.com/ferrari/) has officially announced it will name its newest Formula One (http://www.autoblog.com/tag/formula%20one/) car the F138. The machine is the 59th car Ferrari has built to compete in F1, and it's also the last of the company's F1 efforts to rely on a high-strung V8 for propulsion. F1 rules have changed for next year, forcing competitors to use smaller cylinder counts to get around the track. Ferrari has already said it will use a 1.6-liter turbocharged V6 to do its dirty work. That moves brings an end to the eight-year reign the V8 enjoyed.

Ferrari isn't saying much more about the 2013 car, and the only image we have to go on at the moment is the logo you see above. Stay tuned for more information, and in the interim, be sure to check out the painfully brief press release below (http://www.evoxforums.com/2013/01/30/ferrari-names-new-f1-car-f138/#continued).Continue reading Ferrari names new F1 car F138 (http://www.autoblog.com/2013/01/30/ferrari-names-new-f1-car-f138/)

Ferrari names new F1 car F138 (http://www.autoblog.com/2013/01/30/ferrari-names-new-f1-car-f138/) originally appeared on Autoblog (http://www.autoblog.com) on Wed, 30 Jan 2013 17:46:00 EST.

[MikeFleming]

I'll just leave this here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-t6cxIeCIjE

[Meotchh]

They even gave the DAGs some love & included them in the video...

[Bob Holmes]

By the way, Mercedes has nothing!!! I think the fight will be between Vettel, Kimi and Alonso. I'd throw in Button, but he can't qualify any better than my grandmother.

[MikeFleming]

^
I wish I could drive as good as your grandma.

Just sayin'.

[Bob Holmes]

:p

Oh, he can drive, he just can't seem to qualify well.

[Bob Holmes]

Bummer, McLaren continues to hemorrhage people. Paddy Lowe to Mercedes.

Will the last one out the door please shut off the lights?

[MikeFleming]

If it gets bad enough to where they need to shut off the lights, Patrick and I will come out of retirement, move to England and take over operations.

I'd change the car color back to McLaren Orange.

Anyone else here that speaks [proper] English want to come along?

[Patrick]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8_7N67CO84&fb_source=message

[MikeFleming]

^
Definite style points if they can do that in a race!

[MikeFleming]

Less than two weeks to Australia!!

[Bob Holmes]

Less than two weeks to Australia!!

Its about damn time.

I hate Grand Am, but I had to watch them at COTA to get a decent racing fix.

[MikeFleming]

I'm happy to hear you've been able to resist resorting to NASCAR.

Ten days to practice (nine in West Coast time).

I need to order some new tyres before the first race. I like to have the smell of fresh rubber in the living room for I watch the first racer. More aura.

[Bob Holmes]

I think its more aroma...


I think I might have missed the boat on Mercedes.....nah, just kidding.

[MikeFleming]

Five more days.

I have updated the Calendar with the currently-scheduled 19 F1 events for 2013. Dates & times, track info, lap records, track map, etc.

[Bob Holmes]

Just a reminder, there are bets riding on this first race.

I'm going to be enjoying that cold beer you'll be buying me, Tony.

[MikeFleming]

Did Tony pick Force India again??

[Bob Holmes]

Worse, Mercedes.

[MikeFleming]

I will wager that Maldonado can still find it in himself to run into Hamilton. McLaren or Mercedes - no matter.

[Bob Holmes]

And we have Roman as a backup.

[MikeFleming]

Why we watch Formula 1:

3908

[Patrick]

Them's are the brakes!

[Meotchh]

Them's are the brakes!

Stop it, Stop it...

http://youtu.be/s66vQhar5AI

[Patrick]

Malaysial GP notation:

I couldn't help but notice that the McLaren crew got Lewis Hamilton in and out of their pits much faster this year than last year, when he actually was their driver!

[MikeFleming]

It's amazing what a winter of practice can do!

[8T6 SVO]

I like the guy who damaged his front wing on the first lap and then failed to pit when he had the chance. On lap #2, he found that it is hard to steer when you can't turn your tires because the front wing in under your race car.

[8T6 SVO]

Malaysial GP notation:

I couldn't help but notice that the McLaren crew got Lewis Hamilton in and out of their pits much faster this year than last year, when he actually was their driver!

Still not much difference (2.4 sec). if you're swallowing a spot of beer, you'd have guessed that Lewis had the tires changed in the McLaren pit.

[MikeFleming]

Grosjean quote 2013-05-25:

"Yeah, a little too much touch with the barriers."

[Bob Holmes]

Well, maybe Mercedes will have a chance this weekend.


Button is a number 2 driver, always has been, always will be. If the FIA hadn't upheld Ross's interpretation of a diffuser rule Jenson would be considered just another Barichello or Weber. McLaren f'd up big time letting Hamilton go.

[Patrick]

What airplane does Rubens own that he uses to fly around the world? Is it a 727 or a 737? I forgot. It must be nice to make a living as #2!

[notacarlo]

My dogs name is Kimi. He barely speaks also.

For the past couple of years I have been fortunate enough to attend the Canadian Grand Prix in a privelieged capacity. I work (on occasion) for a third party race team involved in the Ferrari Challenge. This used to be my full time gig. I drove the transport for the race cars and managed the team directly for a dealer. I also work for FNA on occasion as a public liaison for the new car line up at race events.

I have wrecked a chinese scooter at speed on the hairpin at Gilles Villeneuve trying to find the beer tent after a race. I got to drive the race transport on the track because a traffic cop routed me to the casino where I could not back up. They brought a fork over to move the barriers. I did a multipoint turn and headed to the rowing basin. Now all the trucks enter this way. The "corkscrew" or entrance to the paddock has a very low overhang on the left side. I saw one of the Porsche cup trucks tear the entire side off the trailer exposing the cars inside.

The best was during a race and it started to rain very hard. We switched to rains and sent the car back out. We were standing on pit wall when Adrian Newey came over and told us to use the Red Bull pit stand and get out of the rain. I sat in his seat. He had the stand powered up so we could watch live timing. All of our radio frequencies are jammed at F1 races. We had no way to monitor our driver. We just had to wait and see if he came around each time. It was nerve racking.

On a couple of occasions I brought the SVO in the truck. (save on a rental) its been on Road Atlanta, Road America, Limerock, and Infineon. I wish I could have gotten the chance to get her on COTA before I moved to New England.

I have also been fortunate enough to travel to Mugello Italy. We did a finale at Mugello Circuit...Ferrari's F1 test track. We were (still are I think) closely tied to Risi and sponsor there GT1 car. (look for Boardwalk on the rear wing)
I pissed old man Risi off one year pretty good. Our driver wrecked his 430C and I bought $50k worth of parts from FNA and packed them in his truck. Risi has one of the only frame machines in the country certified by Ferrari SpA. He didn't get to make money on the parts and called me to let me know how he felt about that.

Never got to meet any F1 drivers. I did get to sit on Schumakers F1 Ferrari when it was off loaded at our shop to make room for another car. Horseless Carriage ALWAYS has something special in their trucks. That was unexpected. I have pictures of all this stuff. I'll dig them out one of these days.

Im glad there F1 followers on here. Makes me feel at home.

Dan

[Bob Holmes]

Dan, you are now officially an SVOCOP "Rockstar." What does that mean...absolutely nothing. But bring on those pictures.

[notacarlo]

Bob I started a thread on it. I will add more pictures as I find them.

Here be the link....http://www.svocop.com/forum/showthread.php?1885-Starting-a-thread-on-some-of-my-experiences-with-Ferrari

[Bob Holmes]

Thanks

[MikeFleming]

For this weekends race, I'm betting on Hamilton on pole and Kimi to win.

On another note, Honda is set to return to F1 in 2015. And this is a MUST WATCH video:


Honda (http://www.autoblog.com/honda/)is returning to Formula One (http://www.autoblog.com/2013/05/16/honda-returning-to-f1-as-mclaren-partner/) in 2015 with McLaren (http://www.autoblog.com/mclaren/), and when that engine maker and that F1 (http://www.autoblog.com/tag/f1/) constructor are mentioned together, two other words are never far behind: Ayrton Senna (http://www.autoblog.com/tag/ayrton+senna/). There are engine suppliers, constructors and drivers that have bigger numbers, but those three form a triumvirate that came close to defining F1 in the eighties.

Honda Japan has produced a commercial called Sound of Honda that celebrates Senna at a race that turned out to be one of the most momentous of his career for good and bad reasons: the 1989 grand prix at Suzuka (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989_Japanese_Grand_Prix) where he won, then was stripped of, the driver's championship.

The commercial has a terrifically simple premise - there's no CG, no old footage of Senna, no one says a word, it's just sound. And it's pretty damn good. Check it out.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=oeO2q8FzcnM

[MikeFleming]

An older Senna Qualifying lap.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=9Gs2h924smY

[MikeFleming]

Best quote from Hungary:

"He didn't leave me enough room!"

[MikeFleming]

Don't forget Spa is this weekend. Practice starts tomorrow morning.

[Bob Holmes]

Probably my favorite venue for the year. I will be watching.

[MikeFleming]

Probably my favorite venue for the year. I will be watching. I have to agree.

And Spa in the rain?
Magnifique!!

[notacarlo]

Kimi....he's coming. Also a favorite track

[MikeFleming]

Kimi....he's coming. Also a favorite track Spa - when it's snowing!!

Now we're talking!

Although probably not for F1.

[Mike Croke]

My wife is a huge F1 fan. She always roots for the Finns. My job is to make the pancakes while she yells at the television and curses at the DVR for some unspecified sin.

An interesting trivia bit. We were attending the Monterey Historics at Laguna Seca a few years ago. Ferrari had one of Schumacher's most recent world champion cars and ran it around Laguna Seca to try for a track record. They had been there for three days practicing. Despite their efforts, the were two seconds short of the record which had been set about five years prior by Helio Castroneves in a Champ car. This is my biggest issue with F1. The performance does not match the budget. There's all this money, swagger, and hype, but the numbers aren't there in the lap times. A lowly cheapo Champ/CART car is just as fast around a track as an F1 car costing magnitudes more.

During the same visit to Monterey in 2004, Ferrari brought several generations of F1 cars for demo laps. The evolution of the engine noise from the roar of the early 80's 12 cylinder to the scream of the later tiny V10 and V8 is amazing.

[notacarlo]

Castroneves....in a car that's still set up for Mike.....I was there for that. Ferrari would do nothing more than reset the seat for him. Two completely different pilots.

[Mike Croke]

Castroneves wasn't in Schumy's car, it was a Ferrari team factory/backup driver in the car. Castroneves set his track record in a Champ/CART car circa 2000 qualifying for a race.

This is from Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mazda_Raceway_Laguna_Seca#Lap_records) but I believe it is correct.


On August 20, 2006, Toyota F1 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_F1) test driver Ricardo Zonta (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ricardo_Zonta) set an unofficial lap record of 1'06.039.[6] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laguna_seca#cite_note-6) The previous record time was 1'07.722, set by Helio Castroneves (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helio_Castroneves) in a Penske Champ Car (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Champ_Car) during qualifying for the 2000 CART Honda Grand Prix of Monterey. The unofficial record was re-taken by a Champ Car on March 10, 2007 by Sébastien Bourdais (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%C3%A9bastien_Bourdais), who lapped in 1'05.880 during Champ Car Spring Training. The unofficial record was again re-taken by a Formula One car on on May 19, 2012 by Marc Gené (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Gen%C3%A9), who lapped in 1'05.786 in a Ferrari F2003-GA during the 2012 Ferrari Racing Days.[7] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laguna_seca#cite_note-7)

On the other hand, at Montreal, the F1 cars are about 5 seconds quicker per lap compared to the Indy/Champ/CART cars. :confused:

Again, my issue is the cost differential. :avatarbeat-dead-hor Newman/Haas reportedly runs their team for about $20M per year. Red Bull spent an estimated $270M last year. I am not so naive to think there is a linear relationship but still the Champ cars are ~400lbs heavier and cost 10% of the F1 cars. Obviously at some tracks like Laguna Seca, there is essentially no performance difference.

Personally, I like Button. He's seems like a class act, drives clean, never says a bad word about his team (even when they screw up), and seems to really have fun driving compared to some of the whiny prima donnas. Kimi is hysterical. Hamilton is now much better behaved and seems like a smoother driver compared to when working for Ron Dennis.

[notacarlo]

He seems like a cool cat. (Button).
Sorry I thought you meant he was in Scumis car.

[MikeFleming]

Newman/Haas reportedly runs their team for about $20M per year. That gets you half a driver and a new set of brakes for each race during the season - with no car, no fuel, no travel costs, ... If you want to compare speed versus cost, a $15K new car is difficult to beat.

Yes, F1 is *very* expensive. They're still the ultimate form of racing. Period.

The other question to ask is "How much faster would that Newman-Haas team be with double the budget?" "Ten times the budget?" Are we talking a few tenths of a second? What budget would make them five seconds faster?

[Bob Holmes]

What budget would make them five seconds faster? How much does Adrian Newey make?

[Mike Croke]

That gets you half a driver and a new set of brakes for each race during the season. If you want to compare speed versus cost, a $15K new car is difficult to beat.

Yes, F1 is *very* expensive. They're still the ultimate form of racing. Period.

The other question to ask is "How much faster would that Newman-Haas team be with double the budget?" "Ten times the budget?" Are we talking a few tenths of a second? What budget would make them five seconds faster?

I understand the diminishing returns on the money spent. The performance/dollar curve is certainly asymptotic.

It seems a better question is how fast would the Champ car be if lightened by ~ 400lbs? Don't you wonder how a guy like Smokey Yunick would do in such a series?


How much does Adrian Newey make?

Probably as much as the Newman Haas team spends all year!

I just don't know about it being the "ultimate". It seems they spend enormous sums of money on things that have little to do with going faster. Maybe they can be frivolous with a few million given their budgets? One of the entertaining aspects is when Matchett points out when some little chunk of aero trickery gets knocked off the car and there's no speed difference and how much time the aero guys spent trying to tweak that little winglet or foil.

Truthfully my biggest gripe is we can't stream the races through our PS3 so I can ditch DirecTV.

[notacarlo]

Hmmmm a 7/8 champ car? Rocket ship.

[MikeFleming]

It seems a better question is how fast would the Champ car be if lightened by ~ 400lbs? Don't you wonder how a guy like Smokey Yunick would do in such a series? I suspect if it were easy, that many would be doing it. Hence, it's not at all easy.

About Smokey in particular: I suspect he'd have serious issues passing scrutineering (tech inspection) to even qualify - he's not known for playing by any of the rules. and the whole parc fermé concept is foreign to him, violations of which would get him booted (a Britush term) quickly.

MANY very well funded folks have attempted ventures into F1 and most have failed miserably. I'm sure Bob can name several teams.

I seem to recall that several INDY/CART/"whatever they're called these days" drivers have attempted to cross over into F1 and also failed miserably. Whereas several F1 drivers have retired from F1 and gone on to dominate those series here in the US. Think Michael Andretti and Nigel Mansell.

But, alas, the conversation is moot. It's more like comparing the Ford Festiva with the Lambo Aventador. Totally different cars, mfgrs, markets with about the only thing in common being 4 tyres that touch the ground.

On a related note I find it much more interesting to compare GP bikes with F1 GP cars as they sometimes run on the same tracks. Each supposed to be the fastest of their kind. And, in most cases, the F1 cars are 20+ seconds faster - per lap - than the GP bikes.

[Meotchh]

Keep in mind, the F1 cars have not had the numerous tests at Laguna that the CART/ Champ Car/Indy cars have. For an F1 car to go out without all the testing history advantages that the other open wheel cars had & pull off the times it did, I would say that's impressive. Give the F1 team the time to test over & over again & the times would likely continue to improve.

[notacarlo]

There is no turn quite like the "corkscrew" in the current circuits. Maybe Malaysia.... I think. That's a hell of a turn..even in a golf card loaded up with beer...I mean ballast.

[MikeFleming]

Keep in mind, the F1 cars have not had the numerous tests at Laguna that the CART/ Champ Car/Indy cars have. For an F1 car to go out without all the testing history advantages that the other open wheel cars had & pull off the times it did, I would say that's impressive. Give the F1 team the time to test over & over again & the times would likely continue to improve. F1 can only "test" with two+ year old cars. That includes all demo drives at any track.

Comparing a current driver with hundreds of laps experience on that track to a test driver that's never seen that track before isn't representative of the cars at all. Put both cars, both 2+ years old, on any track where F1 has run before - and with current real race drivers - and I suspect you'll see a huge difference in times.

[Meotchh]

F1 can only "test" with two+ year old cars. That includes all demo drives at any track.

Comparing a current driver with hundreds of laps experience on that track to a test driver that's never seen that track before isn't representative of the cars at all. Put both cars, both 2+ years old, on any track where F1 has run before - and with current real race drivers - and I suspect you'll see a huge difference in times.
Mike, you're banned for repeating what I just said.

[MikeFleming]

Mike, you're banned for repeating what I just said. You said wha ... Me banned? Dayum!

I hate it when that happens.

[Bob Holmes]

Unless we can get Roman or Maldonado to take out Vettel a couple of times, this thing is over. Both the Manufacturer and Driver battles are for second.

[MikeFleming]

I tend to agree.

[MikeFleming]

We now have a quote that belongs on the wall next to Kimi's famous one

"Just leave me alone. I know what to do"

From Alonzo, 2013.09.07, Monza Qualifying Q3:

"Filepe is too far!!"

[notacarlo]

5284

[Bob Holmes]

Mike, I think he said "Massa is too far."

But maybe my hearing is going away with everything else.

[MikeFleming]

"far" is Italian for "fast", No?

[Bob Holmes]

Sure...why not.

[MikeFleming]

Mike, I think he said "Massa is too far." Re-played that section near the end of Q-3 several times and Alonzo's transmission is very difficult to make out all of it. It appears he most likely said "Felipe is too far".

So I inflicting a self-banning on myself for mis-quoting Fernando. I have also updated my post above.

[MikeFleming]

Best quote from Korea:

"When are you going to call me in? These tires are <beep>ed."
Lewis Hamilton

[Bob Holmes]

Everybody is running for second. This has turned into a rout.

[MikeFleming]

Yep. Certainly looks like 4 in a row for RB and Vettell. So good yet so sad at the same time.

So other than loosing Hamilton, what happened to McClaren??

[Bob Holmes]

McLaren's big loss was Hamilton. Jenson Button is just a journeyman mid-packer that lucked into a championship when Ross outsmarted everyone on a rule interpretation. His move to McLaren was not a win for McLaren except in the instance of having a number one, with Button making enough points to get them a constructors. The Whitmarsh years have not been kind.

[stockman1]

Have you seen Rush yet? Highly recommend it! Great story, decent racing action although the cars looked like go karts?

[MikeFleming]

That's from way back when they had *real* rear tyres on them.