Vacuum lines on the turbo

[phipplet]

I think the previous owner disabled the "overboost" light and buzzer when he was racing it. Can someone identify the parts in the pics and tell me if that's the case? The Turbo boost gauge still works, just no dash indicator light. Thanks in advance.:p29422943

[Gyrhead]

Yeah the BCS is disconnected. Do you have a Gillis or other form of manual boost control? The buzzer and lamp circuits are under the steel plate behind the shock tower. You can barely see this area in the top photo. Is this an 84?

[phipplet]

Yeah the BCS is disconnected. Do you have a Gillis or other form of manual boost control? The buzzer and lamp circuits are under the steel plate behind the shock tower. You can barely see this area in the top photo. Is this an 84?

I have no idea what boost control setup he installed. I just started looking at things to fix and noticed this was disconnected and bypassed. I guess I could always reconnect the hoses and see what happens? What exactly does this module control? I've never owned a turbo car before so I'm learning as we go. Thanks!

[MikeFleming]

For details on the Overboost light/buzzer, look here:

http://www.svocop.com/forum/showthread.php?1175-quot-Turbo-Warning-Switch-quot&p=9194&viewfull=1#post9194
(http://www.svocop.com/forum/showthread.php?1175-quot-Turbo-Warning-Switch-quot&p=9194&viewfull=1#post9194)
( My advance apologies for all the red. )

[phipplet]

For details on the Overboost light/buzzer, look here:

http://www.svocop.com/forum/showthread.php?1175-quot-Turbo-Warning-Switch-quot&p=9194&viewfull=1#post9194
(http://www.svocop.com/forum/showthread.php?1175-quot-Turbo-Warning-Switch-quot&p=9194&viewfull=1#post9194)
( My advance apologies for all the red. )

Hmmmmm? I removed the cover and everything looks to be attached and nothing missing? I talked with the previous owner and he said he was getting "low boost" while racing, so that's why he re-routed the vacuum lines. Is there a fuse for the overboost light? I was told when you turn the ignition on,,,,the "overboost" light is suppose to light up then go away. Mine doesn't do that. Thanks.

[phipplet]

Reconnected the vacuum lines the way they were designed and POOF! The "overboost" light comes on at start-up and the engine runs a lot smoother. ;) Before, the engine would surge, I think the turbo vacuum was doing that?

[MikeFleming]

The vac/pressure lines on the turbo comporessor housing have no effect on the overboost switch/light/buzzer. Boost level, yes.

Call a priest and light some candles while you wait.

[phipplet]

Okay......help me out here. (I'm sorry if it's a dumb question,,,,but I'm an aircooled VW guy and all of this is all new to me:p) When I put the vacuum lines back on the solenoid (like they are suppose to be from the factory) the car started smoking bad after it warmed up. Blue smoke...filled up my garage!!! YUCK! The only upside is it ran really smooth, with no surging. I switched the vacuum lines back to the way the P/O had them (see above picture) and all the smoke went away, but I'm still getting the occasional surge at idle. What gives?:confused:

[blueboss]

The only dumb question is the one not asked. Not knowing how you connected the lines BCS lines, I'll just throw this out there. From the turbo outlet to one side of the bcs solenoid then from the other side of the bcs solenoid to the wastegate actuator. I just woke up but I can't remember what the port left open on the turbo inlet elbow gets connected to. I think mine is blocked off. Alternatively, if you want to test the actuator you can connect the line from the turbo outlet directly to the actuator. From the factory they were rated at 8-10lbs. So if it's working correctly you should boost to rated and that's it. Whatever.....

If you're smoking upon warmup at idle, check the pcv system...specifically the valve. I'd guess it's either stuck, the wrong one or non-existent. Check the lines as well for cracking. Next, check the intake system from the turbo outlet to the throttle body for oil. A lot of times, oil will accumulate in there over time and there's only one place for it to go. Lastly, you mentioned the car has a racing history. I'd do a compression test AND a leak down test. It might be time for rings.....just sayin. As far as the surging, it could be working as advertised (SVO's have been known to "hunt" while idling), your TPS could be out of adjustment or you could have a vacuum leak. Not sure if anyone has told you or not but the way the p/o had the turbo lines connected, assuming the wg actuator was not connected, you had no boost control at all. Meaning, once the turbo spools, it'll keep making boost until either it or the head gasket reaches it's mechanical limits.

[TheSVOTrust]

Not sure if anyone has told you or not but the way the p/o had the turbo lines connected, assuming the wg actuator was not connected, you had no boost control at all.

I'm going to guess we are going to hear ALOT more once taken apart to fix on this one! Absolutely correct PO wasn't limiting boost.

Those of us that have done multiple head gasket repairs - can probably pin point the site of the brake based on the symptoms (In this case I wouldn't be surprised if it is both "sharing cylinders" (between 3 and 4) and "lifted" (at 4)
You can tell by the plugs in the given cylinders usually - when you do the CT. (Head gaskets usually go when run over 20 PSI for some time (READ without control, added fuel or timing adjustments)

My guess is VALVE SEALS are "hard as a rock" also like we have all seen on 2.3 EFI T/C cars.

No matter if HG or VS (or if it is neither)
Car needs boost control (something)
PVC Valve (Motorcraft)
Fresh fuel (drain tank)
New Plugs and Wire (Autolite and Motorcraft)
Cap and Rotor (whatever you want - just confirm rotor style before buying or you will be returning the wrong one)

IF raced there is a good chance that cam timing has been changed - so since I'd be looking at the belt (and Aux shaft condition anyway) I'd change the belt. (We know it isn't and issue if it breaks - just why do work twice)

Mark
P.S. You have been great in taking the time with photos and TALKING to us !! (Welcome again) IF you continue as well as ask "what do I do with this" - when we see problems WE HAVE ALL been through it before (trust us)

[Raven855]

but I'm an aircooled VW guy and all of this is all new to me:p

So after we get this sorted out, you are going to post up some pics of the air cooled stuff right. There are several of us air heads on here and would love to see some pics!

[phipplet]

So after we get this sorted out, you are going to post up some pics of the air cooled stuff right. There are several of us air heads on here and would love to see some pics!

Here's pics of my '64 bus and '61 beetle. I sold the bus this summer. We used to sell hot dogs out of it at car shows. The beetle was a Father / Son project several years ago. I still have it.
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[phipplet]

Back to the SVO!:) What is this solenoid and what does it do? My kid has the same exact solenoid in his '92 LX mustang (2.5 liter) and it appears to have something to do with the emissions? I'm just trying to figure out what it has to do with my turbo and why when I hooked it up I started blowing blue smoke? Thanks for the help in advance....
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[phipplet]

Ahhhhhhh! I was just sitting in my SVO and shifting the gears (engine off) and the shifter went limp!:eek: It will no longer engage a gear! The clutch is still tight, so it didn't snap a clutch cable. I swear I'm not completely engine /tranny illiterate.:( It feels like the shifter popped out of it's housing! Looks like I will be taking the center console apart............yay!

[MikeFleming]

There is only one solenoid in the pic - and that is the early (84 style) Boost Control Solenoid (BCS). The BCS [on the early models] is mounted on a flexible rubber plate by three screws to the inner fender forward of the shock tower. That BCS works in conjunction with the large silver box directly underneath it - the Boost Control Module (BCM). The EEC sends the Boost signal to the BCM and the BCM amplifies the signal to drive the solenoid. Later SVOs (85.5+) use a higher-impedance (lower current draw) solenoid that gets driven directly from the EEC. BCS's have electrical and tube connections.

The black, rectangular SENSOR on the strut tower is the Barometric Pressure sensor (BP). There is also a black lettering on white background part number label on it. It's function is to report outside air pressure (barometric pressure) to the EEC. It is a square wave, variable frequency output. There are only electrical connections to it (3-wires). Fuel calculations (and load) are computed using the VAF (vane airflow, or volume), VAT (vane air temp) and BP (atmospheric pressure) sensors. Newer generations of engine management use a MAF sensor for all three of these data sets.

With no BP signal to the EEC, fuel control will be totally erratic and it probably won't drive well either.

[phipplet]

Ahhhhhhh! I was just sitting in my SVO and shifting the gears (engine off) and the shifter went limp!:eek: It will no longer engage a gear! The clutch is still tight, so it didn't snap a clutch cable. I swear I'm not completely engine /tranny illiterate.:( It feels like the shifter popped out of it's housing! Looks like I will be taking the center console apart............yay!

Figured this one out....one of the bolts broke on the shifter....easy fix;)

[phipplet]

There is only one solenoid in the pic - and that is the early (84 style) Boost Control Solenoid (BCS). The BCS [on the early models] is mounted on a flexible rubber plate by three screws to the inner fender forward of the shock tower. That BCS works in conjunction with the large silver box directly underneath it - the Boost Control Module (BCM). The EEC sends the Boost signal to the BCM and the BCM amplifies the signal to drive the solenoid. Later SVOs (85.5+) use a higher-impedance (lower current draw) solenoid that gets driven directly from the EEC. BCS's have electrical and tube connections.

The black, rectangular SENSOR on the strut tower is the Barometric Pressure sensor (BP). There is also a black lettering on white background part number label on it. It's function is to report outside air pressure (barometric pressure) to the EEC. It is a square wave, variable frequency output. There are only electrical connections to it (3-wires). Fuel calculations (and load) are computed using the VAF (vane airflow, or volume), VAT (vane air temp) and BP (atmospheric pressure) sensors. Newer generations of engine management use a MAF sensor for all three of these data sets.

With no BP signal to the EEC, fuel control will be totally erratic and it probably won't drive well either.

Okay....so that little gold solenoid without the vacuum lines attached is the BCS. Got it! Then the stuff under the cover behind the strut tower is the "Turbo warning switch?"
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[MikeFleming]

There is one solenoid and one switch on the brackets on the rear side of the shock tower under the heart shield (which only came on the 84 models). The lower one with *one* hose to it (on bottom bracket) is the boost pressure switch that switches on the Overboost light and associated buzzer. The SVO has one pressure switch while non-SVO turbos have two.

The one with TWO hoses to it and a black 2-wire electrical connector is the EGR solenoid (on the top bracket). Look here for a pic:

(http://www.svocop.com/forum/showthread.php?1175-quot-Turbo-Warning-Switch-quot&p=9194&viewfull=1#post9194)

[phipplet]

There is one solenoid and one switch on the brackets on the rear side of the shock tower under the heart shield (which only came on the 84 models). The lower one with *one* hose to it (on bottom bracket) is the boost pressure switch that switches on the Overboost light and associated buzzer. The SVO has one pressure switch while non-SVO turbos have two.

The one with TWO hoses to it and a black 2-wire electrical connector is the EGR solenoid (on the top bracket). Look here for a pic:

(http://www.svocop.com/forum/showthread.php?1175-quot-Turbo-Warning-Switch-quot&p=9194&viewfull=1#post9194)

Starting to make sense! :) Thanks...talked with the P/O, he said the BCS was going bad and that's why he disconnected it. He has a brand new Boost Control Solenoid and Boost Control Module with OEM hoses that I bought and will pick up later. The valve cover gasket and power steering pump have been leaking all over the engine. Any recommendations for valve stem seals and the valve cover gasket? Are any brands better than others? Also, the compression in each cylinder is 165-145-150-160. Thanks again.

[MikeFleming]

Compression is fine.

Use the stem seals from the 87/88 TC - they are different for intake and exhaust. Your Ford dealer and most parts houses will have them. Be sure to use the plastic straw to install them (covers the valve stem grooves to keep form nicking the inside of hte seal).

I like the cork cam cover gaskets (~$6.00) and they never leak for me but most folks over-tighten them and the cork crushes out. I HATE the blue Felpro rubber-like ones and they always push out and leak for me (~$25.00) - they have spacers in the bolt holes. I've had good results with the Ford black rigid, rubber-like one with spacers in the bolt holes (F57Z-6584-A) (~$25.00).

Overall I just use the cork ones. Cheaper in the long run.

PS pumps can leak at the hose connection, the pressure valve seal to the body (where the hose connects), and the plastic reservoir to the body (o-ring), the res could have a crack. Lastly there's the return line to the bottom of the res housing.

Also consider that hard right turns will slosh fluid out the top of the filler neck past the cap and into the left inner fender area - soaking the wiring in that area. We used to cut the res housing filler neck off and extend it 6" with 2" hosing at the Bondurant School to reduce the sloshing.

[phipplet]

Very good,,,thanks!

[phipplet]

Started taking things apart and draining fluids. Drained the oil and radiator. Removed the BCS and its box, going to test it. Preparing to replace the valve stem seals! :p I've never done it before, but been reading up on it and it looks pretty straight forward. Bought the spring tool and air hold fitting. Need to order Mike's book!:)

[phipplet]

Talked with the P/O today, he said the engine had never been worked on,,,therefore the valve stem seals are original!:eek: I worked on taking everything apart to get to the seals. The cam looks great! no scratches anywhere! I can't quite see the valve stem seals, still waiting for the tool to be delivered. Any input or advice is greatly appreciated!

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[MikeFleming]

If they're original, they've probably long since turned into pixie dust and fallen out, ending up in the oil pan. You might still see the small spring wire around the valve stem though. Floating around.

Be sure to remove all old seal residue (broken bits, coil wires, etc.).

[phipplet]

Removed the spark plugs. Every one of the spark plug threads were covered in oil. I guess that can mean one of two things....valve stem seals (which I'm hoping!) or the rings, (Which means the engine is shot!). Could do a leak down test or just replace the seals and hope for the best! :p

[mrzw70]

If the turbo oil seals go bad you could get oil in the intake as well. I've read here that these things tend to get a little oil build up in the intake from the pcv system not being up to snuff.

[MikeFleming]

Removed the spark plugs. Every one of the spark plug threads were covered in oil. I guess that can mean one of two things....valve stem seals (which I'm hoping!) or the rings, (Which means the engine is shot!). Could do a leak down test or just replace the seals and hope for the best! :p All it really means is that you haven't removed and cleaned the spark plugs and holes in quite some time. Clean everything, drive it a couple hundred to 1000 miles and re-inspect.

If the rings and bores are totally shot, it would be spraying for mosquitoes whenever the engine is running (or at least semi-fogging).

[phipplet]

All it really means is that you haven't removed and cleaned the spark plugs and holes in quite some time. Clean everything, drive it a couple hundred to 1000 miles and re-inspect.

If the rings and bores are totally shot, it would be spraying for mosquitoes whenever the engine is running (or at least semi-fogging).

Mike,

It would only start blowing blue smoke after it warmed up (took quite awhile) but once it started it wouldn't stop!

[MikeFleming]

Rings and upper bores are gone. Time to find a machine shop with a torque plate to bore the block.

[Raven855]

Do your leak down test and get a better understanding of the engine condition. Your compression numbers are pretty good.

[MikeFleming]

Let me know if you need to lend a bore gauge.

[phipplet]

Okay, I'm about to order some basic tune up parts. I assume the Motorcraft parts are the best, but I'm having a little difficulty locating some of them. If someone has the part numbers and where to buy them that would be great!

#1- Valve stem seals. (I'm told to use the 85-86 seals, what's the difference from the 84's?) I'm having difficulty locating OEM Motorcraft valve stem seals.
#2- fuel filters (I have two pumps, not sure if there's two filters?)
#3 & 4 - Plugs / wires. (What's the best for this engine?)
#5- Best valve cover gasket? Brand / part number....rubber or cork?

Thanks in advance! Getting closer to putting her back on the road:cool:

[MikeFleming]

- Stems seals for the 87 TC are the ones you want. Ford #E7ZZ--A intake and -B for exhaust. I've got several sets here if you can't find them locally. I can post Ford part numbers tomorrow.

You will also need one of those plastic sleeve "straw" thingies in 11/32" to cover the valve keeper grooves before installing the new seals.

- One fuel filter - mounted behind he chassis mounted fuel pump forward of the right rear wheel well.

[phipplet]

- Stems seals for the 87 TC are the ones you want. Ford #E7ZZ--A intake and -B for exhaust. I've got several sets here if you can't find them locally. I can post Ford part numbers tomorrow.

You will also need one of those plastic sleeve "straw" thingies in 11/32" to cover the valve keeper grooves before installing the new seals.

- One fuel filter - mounted behind he chassis mounted fuel pump forward of the right rear wheel well.

Thanks Mike,

How about the valve cover gasket and wires / plugs? I can still get Motorcraft wires and plugs if they are the best for the engine?

There's an old Ford dealership close by and from what I'm told the owner used to race SVO's back in the day.... so I'm sure he stocked up on some parts. The dealership is kinda in the middle of nowhere! :p

[Meotchh]

The dealership is kinda in the middle of nowhere! :p

Everything in Eatonville is in the middle of nowhere:stick_poke:.

[MikeFleming]

How about the valve cover gasket and wires / plugs? I can still get Motorcraft wires and plugs if they are the best for the engine? Gasket is already covered here (earlier in this thread):

http://www.svocop.com/forum/showthread.php?1315-Vacuum-lines-on-the-turbo&p=10262&viewfull=1#post10262

*I* use the Bosch platinum plugs for this engine (the colder of the two available). Some folks don't like platinum plugs in turbo engines but every engine manufacturer as long as i can remember has used them stock - except Ford & Chrysler. More cost related than anything else.

Don't bother with Motorcraft fiber cables - unless you want to replace them every time you change or check a spark plug. They do not last long. Get a set of Magnacor cables (in 8.8 or 10mm) and be done with replacing cables for the rest of your life.

Valve stem seal part numbers:

Intake: E7ZZ-6571-A (dark brown)
Exhaust: E7ZZ-6571-B (black)

[phipplet]

Everything in Eatonville is in the middle of nowhere:stick_poke:.

Yes it is, but Van Cleve Ford in Morton is even further out there!;)

[phipplet]

Just ordered a Ford OEM valve cover gasket # F57Z6584A. Also ordered valve stem seals from Mike! :) Can't wait to get this done and back on the road!!!!!

[phipplet]

The more I dig, the more I find wrong! :eek: Better stop while I'm ahead.....

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[MikeFleming]

At least it's red. One less thing to fix.

[SVO86]

What is the correct id size of the silicone vacuum hose from the boost controller to the wastegate?

[phipplet]

Two questions...

#1 -- Without running the engine, is there a way to test my factory BCS to see if it's operating properly?

#2 -- Does anyone have a picture of a Gillis manual boost control module installed? I know where the vacuum line from the wastegate goes,,,but I'm a little confused about the other vacuum line and what holes need to be capped off?

[MikeFleming]

1. You can use the KOER (key On, Engine Running) test built into the EEC to test all output functionality. Cycle throttle ottturn outputs on or off (except injectors which should never stay all on).

[phipplet]

Okay,,,I replaced all of my valve stem seals today!;) wasn't too difficult. Used compressed air and all of my valves stayed shut tight! (Note to self....when using compressed air, make sure your oil drain plug is installed!!!:eek: ) Couple of observations when I took off the old valve stem seals. #1---- only #1 exhaust valve stem seal came off in pieces, all other seals came off in one piece. #2--when I looked at the top of the old valve stem seals, the part numbers on top of the seals were all different. It didn't matter if it was an intake or exhaust? They all had the ford emblem stamped on them, but the numbers were all different? (I can post pics and numbers tomorrow if interested?) #3---this is for you Mike, why are the valve stem seals I ordered from you completely different than the ones I took off?

Also, I'm still looking for a picture / diagram of a Gillis manual boost controller installed. I don't want to install it wrong.

Thanks.

[MikeFleming]

Yeah, post pics. We always like pictures.

#3: The "newer" ones work better - totally different design.

Someday I'll post pics of the assorted stem seals used over the production years of the SVO and other turbo engines. The old stuff just didn't last long at turbo temps - especially seals installed on the exhaust valves.

[phipplet]

Okay,,,,I put everything back together and attempted to start it without luck. (It ran fine before I took it apart!) It doesn't seem to be getting fuel. I can hear the high pressure pump come on when I turn the ignition to the on postion. The line is pressurized, but there's no fuel on the spark plugs when I pull them? Just curious, when you turn the ignition to the "on" postion without starting, shouldn't the fuel gauge register what's in the tank? Mine doesn't move and I know there's 5 gallons in there. The P/O was having problems with the fuel pump leaking.

[phipplet]

Further investigation,,,,it seems the injectors are not injecting the fuel?

[MikeFleming]

Further investigation,,,,it seems the injectors are not injecting the fuel? Did you disconnect anything electrical or EEC? TPS? IAC?

[phipplet]

I had disengaged the TPS & IAC, but reconnected them before startup. Its got me stumped.

[MikeFleming]

Next most likely place to look is there is a large air leak between the VAF and intake manifold. Did you reconnect the vacuum tree hose to the fitting on the top of the upper intake? Charge cooler hoses? TFI connector?

[phipplet]

I never took the upper intake off. I did take the throttle body off. TFI is connected. What do you mean by "charge cooler hoses?" Also, what about the fuel gauge not working with the key in the "on" position? Is that normal. Plus, when I turn the key to the "on" postion I notice the tach slightly bounces twice and the oil pressure gauge moves up about an 1/8 of an inch. This is all without the engine running. Could just be nothing......even if there was a small leak,,,wouldn't the engine at least try to start? backfire or something. I have nothing, just cranks. I checked and I do have good spark. The fuel line is pressurized.

[phipplet]

:mad:....Okay.....I finally figured out why it won't start and what I did. Somehow during the valve stem seal replacement I managed to completely knock the cam out of time! YAY! At TDC when I line up the crank pulley key and dot, the cam pulley mark is at 7' o'clock, nowhere near it's "sight" marker. I hope I haven't done some serious damage cranking on the engine!!! Over the next few days I'll take off the timing belt and re-postion the cam using the "string" method. My question is about the auxillary pulley to the right between the crank and cam. There are no markings on it? Does it need to be postioned a certain way relative to the cam and crank? Any info and pics would be greatly appreciated! Thanks again for all the help on this forum, I'm reading and learning all I can about this engine.


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[MikeFleming]

Once you get TDC for #1/4 pistons, set the cam to it's zero mark. The stock valve train is not interference, so no damage done.

Then rotate the aux shaft to where the ROTOR in the dist lines up with the #1 post on the dist cap. Now disconnect the SPOUT. That should be close enough for it to start. Set base timing, switch off and reconnect SPOUT.

Drink beer.

[phipplet]

Once you get TDC for #1/4 pistons, set the cam to it's zero mark. The stock valve train is not interference, so no damage done.

Then rotate the aux shaft to where the ROTOR in the dist lines up with the #1 post on the dist cap. Now disconnect the SPOUT. That should be close enough for it to start. Set base timing, switch off and reconnect SPOUT.

Drink beer.


Thanks Mike,

I think drinking beer is what got me into this mess! :p I have been pulling my hair out for the past week trying to figure this out. As soon as I lined up the crank key and dot at TDC and looked at the cam position, I realized what I had done. It all made perfect sense. Think I'm going to go ahead and replace the timing belt while I'm at it!

[MikeFleming]

I think drinking beer is what got me into this mess!

Think I'm going to go ahead and replace the timing belt while I'm at it! That's the problem when having too many projects. Finish one project, drink beer. Start next project, drink beer. Finish second project, drink beer. Before too long drinking a beer becomes the next project. Which calls for another beer.

Probably a good idea on replacing the belt. For the future project list: Get round-tooth sprockets and a round-tooth belt. They re quieter, last much longer and less chance of slippage.

[phipplet]

It's ALIVE! :D Set the cam back to the correct timing. I fired it up, it ticked for a few seconds, then adjusted the timing and now runs perfect!!! No more smoking out the tailpipe. Took it for a spin around the neighborhood and runs great. Thanks for all the help. Now I can turn my attention to the boost module.

[MikeFleming]

No more smoking out the tailpipe. Not to worry - we can add smoke later!

Congrats!

[phipplet]

Thanks for the help Mike. The P/O has a NOS boost control module that he never installed, it's part of a package deal that I'm picking up next month. Should I install the Gillis manual boost module or just put it back to the way Ford made it? There's nothing fancy about the engine, all stock.

[Meotchh]

I would say run it stock to get a good base line feel for it. It's not like we got ideal weather for driving right now.

[Chalky]

What he said, DON'T ask me how I know!!!!

[phipplet]

Hooked the factory overboost back up today. After a few minutes the engine was surging. It would idle fine for several minutes, then climb to about 1500-1700 rpm, then back down to idle. Unhooked it,,,,,idles fine with no surging? weird

[MikeFleming]

What *exactly* do you mean by "the factory overboost"?? Pics please.

If the idle has changed at all, you have introduced some air leaks.

[phipplet]

The boost control module. The P/O was having issues with it and disconnected it. He bought a new one, but never installed it. He was running it with unlimited boost control. I reconnected everything,,,,and after a bit the engine would start surging. Nothing seemed to change when I swithed the fuel switch on / off.


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[phipplet]

Well, I hooked up the Gillis manual boost module thinking the original Ford boost module was bad. After about 10 mins of warming up, the engine starting surging again:mad: So, this time I decided to unhook the TPS when it was surging. Guess what? The idle dropped back down to normal. Did this a few more times to confirm it was the problem. When I reconnected the TPS the engine would start surging again.

[MikeFleming]

Check for a code 23 on the KOEO test. if you get hat one, replace the TPS and/or repair the associated stub harness.

[phipplet]

I followed the instructions on this site for testing and recalibrating my TPS;

http://www.stinger-performance.com/tech.html (http://www.stinger-performance.com/tech.html)

My intial TPS voltage was .63 at idle. I reset it to .94 and did the other adjustments. Runs really really smooth now and no surging. I let it idle for 45 minutes and all is well! :D Let's see what else I can break and fix!

[MikeFleming]

Party on, Wayne!

[phipplet]

Okay,,,the car is running great, except for an occasional miss? I hooked up my timing light to the coil wire and discovered it was missing from its steady beat every 4-5 seconds! Is the coil going bad? or is it the cap and rotor? I ordered a new Motorcraft cap and rotor. Any ideas?

[phipplet]

What's the best coil? Motorcraft? The engine is all stock, nothing fancy. Any coils better than others?

[MikeFleming]

There may be better ones but the Motorcraft stock one is plenty enough to take Rick Byrnes Bonneville car to over 200MPH. A stock replacement is fine and probably near the best price.

[phipplet]

Thanks again Mike. I'm not sure if it's the coil? Have you ever heard of the timing light skipping after a few a seconds? I don't know if it's the coil or the ECU?

[MikeFleming]

I would first suspect the dsitributor dreive system (dist gear, aux shaft gear, cam belt) then the TFI and/or PIP (always replace as a set).

You can always unplug the SPOUT and watch the marks to eliminate the EEC. Then it's all up to the dist drive and TFI/PIP.

[phipplet]

Awesome! this is why I love this forum!!! If the cam is off by a tooth or two? would it cause the miss?

[MikeFleming]

Possibly, but unlikely. A "miss" is generally something that is intermittent, like an occasional stumble. Cam timing is very consistent, unless it's right on the borderline where it almost can't run at all. Some folks call that a cam lope.

In any case cam timing is totally independent of distributor timing scatter.

[phipplet]

Everything is running smoothly once again! Just ordered my new tires, they will be here in a week or so. I ordered a set of Hankook's. (I currently have racing slicks on and they're not exactly street legal, plus it's very wet here in the PNW!) Can't wait to take her out and see what all the "hoopla" is about the SVO! ;) I have some pretty good canyons/valleys here to drive and put her through her paces!

[Chalky]

You'll be stoked, there are some nice back roads in your area. You'll enjoy it, then want more, at which point you get out the Maximum Motorsports catalogue and write a fat check!!!!!

[phipplet]

mmmmmmm....I likey:fasttruck:

[phipplet]

Well.......I got my new tires on and in the 1.5 miles that I got to drive my SVO it was awesome!............until the coil went out! I said some words I'd rather not repeat. :mad: Had it towed home and pushed her back into my garage. Tested and confirmed the coil was dead. (This was the intermintent miss I was talking about in previous posts.) Of course, I replaced everything, but the coil. Just ordered a new Motorcraft coil from Amazon. It wiill be here tomorrow. So the saga continues...wish me luck! :)

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[MikeFleming]

Christmas lights in the background of the second pic?

[in2fords]

Christmas lights in the background of the second pic?
if there still up in February they are no longer xmas lights and are now Party lights :)

hopefully the new coil brings it back to life now that you have tires to drive on :)

[phipplet]

Christmas lights in the background of the second pic?

Yes....and a red "siren" light is always on....for the ladies;)

[phipplet]

Okay,,,,scratching my head again. Put in the new coil and still doesn't want to start. I have power going to the coil, but when I turn over the engine no spark from the coil. Could I have gotten a bad coil again?

[Meotchh]

Make sure the coil has a good solid ground. Could also be an ignition switch problem.

[MikeFleming]

Ignition coil? Doesn't need a ground. In fact, it won't work if there is one. The TFI provides all the ground it can use.

[phipplet]

Well,,,I have 12 volts going to and from the coil,,,just no spark when cranking. What tells the coil to fire? My timing is all correct. Like I said,,,,it was running fine and then it just stopped. Has to be a short or a fuse somewhere I'm missing.

[MikeFleming]

The TFI provides the ground for the coil prmary circuit. It grounds for a short time, then opens which makes the field collapse and produces the spark.

First verify the engine grounds (the one n the upper bellhousing to the firewall) and the chassis harness grounds near the battery, then test the TFI/PIP.

[phipplet]

The TFI provides the ground for the coil prmary circuit. It grounds for a short time, then opens which makes the field collapse and produces the spark.

First verify the engine grounds (the one n the upper bellhousing to the firewall) and the chassis harness grounds near the battery, then test the TFI/PIP.

Will check tomorrow. From what I have read and the symptoms I have...it's pointing to the TFI module. Just seems kinda strange,,,I thought if the TFI cooled down the car would start? From internet articles the TFI seemed to be a common problem for Ford.

Thanks Mike

[MikeFleming]

From internet articles the TFI seemed to be a common problem for Ford. There were some failures in the early TFI & PIP units in the mid-late 80's and almost none since then. Those stories on the Internet are just old wives tales. And don't relate to products made in the last 15 years.

Then again you MIGHT have a 20 year old TFI and/or PIP in you car!

[phipplet]

Then again you MIGHT have a 20 year old TFI and/or PIP in you car!

Well,,,it is the original Motorcraft TFI module. Not getting a signal to the coil from it. So it's either the TFI or the PIP. If it's the PIP I'll probably just buy a rebuilt distributor. I see t hat Cardone remanufactures the correct distributors for our cars. Has anybody had any problems, quality control issues with their distributors?

[MikeFleming]

Could also be the TFI harness wiring - the insulation falls off there before the electrical - more vibration. So make sure the green coil/tach wire has a direct contact to teh TFI connector.

[phipplet]

I did that, but will double check again. I hate electrical gremlins! How about the Cardone rebuilt dizzy? Heard anything? I've bought power steering pumps from them in the past and never had a problem, but I've never bought a distributor.

[phipplet]

I don't think the SVO Gods want me to drive their car! :( the saga continues................................

[MikeFleming]

Send Patrick some beer - appease the SVO Gods!

[phipplet]

Send Patrick some beer - appease the SVO Gods!

I hope he puts in a good word for me! I offered up the traditional burnt offering of a Camaro and Charger!


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[MikeFleming]

God Bless You, my son!

[phipplet]

Great news! Replaced the TFI module and the SVO fired up and ran great. Bad news! This time I got about 5 miles into my trip and the steering wheel started shaking. I could smell metal on metal burning. Limped her home and discoverd the front rim was so hot you couldn't touch it. Let it cool down and discovered the caliper was stuck! :eek: UGH! So now I'm going to buy a new caliper and pads for the front. I'll have the rotor turned and hopefully it's not warped too bad. I didn't drive it that far. Does anyone know the part number for the caliper? Also, what's a good brand of pads to run?

Thanks for putting up with me and my questions. Someday I'll get this thing roadworthy!

[MikeFleming]

Replace BOTH front calipers. They're very common, cheap and almost everyone stocks them. If you get the steel piston ones, be sure to get pads with the wide tangs on the piston side (or bend them).

[phipplet]

Replace BOTH front calipers. They're very common, cheap and almost everyone stocks them. If you get the steel piston ones, be sure to get pads with the wide tangs on the piston side (or bend them).

I was going to purchase these; what does it mean when they say "loaded?" Does that mean they include the pads? Or I could order rebuilt Ford calipers for $18 each and the pads.

http://www.latemodelrestoration.com/item/LRS-2320SVO/1984-86-Mustang-Svo-Front-Brake-Caliper-Set?utm_source=google-shopping&utm_medium=comparison-shopping&utm_campaign=google-shopping&gclid=CKPMpaWixrUCFe1_QgodgzUAMA

[phipplet]

Just ordered rebuilt Motorcraft calipers and new pads from O'reilly's, $60 for everything! Can't beat that!:D

[MikeFleming]

I think "Loaded" means you don't need to drink any beers before installing them. Or maybe it means "with pads".

It's one of those - Patrick would know.

[phipplet]

New front brakes,calipers and rotors turned! Bled the system and it stops on a dime! Handles great,,,,really stiff,,,but I might just need to adjust the Konis? The only complaint I have is the power steering, it is way to sensitive for such a good handling car. Other than that, it gets up and skoots!:runningdog: Took me several tries, but I got the manual Gillis boost valve adjusted. Going to hook the computer back up and see if there's a big difference. I now understand what a lot of people say when talking about "turbo lag." It seems to to take several seconds for the turbo to spool up, but when it does...WOW! Now I need to focus on my rearend and replace the pinion seal. Thanks for all the help Mike!

[Stinger]

I now understand what a lot of people say when talking about "turbo lag." It seems to to take several seconds for the turbo to spool up, but when it does...WOW!

Downshift, then floor it...or just floor it at a higher rpm and you won't have any "lag" to speak of. You can't drive them like a v8.

[Chalky]

Unless I'm cruising on the highway, I try and keep the rpm's at around 2500, then full boost is just a foot stomp away!!!!

[in2fords]

For a stock motor what is your red line?
My tach goes to 6k and I normally bring it up to that already a couple times a day :)
What is a safe shift point? Is there a stock rev limiter?

[MikeFleming]

What is a safe shift point? Is there a stock rev limiter? Depends on the installed EEC. Stock fuel cut limits are between 6250 and 6600 iirc.

[Stinger]

For a stock motor what is your red line?
My tach goes to 6k and I normally bring it up to that already a couple times a day :)
What is a safe shift point? Is there a stock rev limiter?

While you can safely rev it to the limiter, stock 2.3's accelerate the quickest when shifted no higher than 5400. Peak power is typically 5200 or so.

[phipplet]

I let my middle son drive the SVO! He really liked it! He has a 1992 LX notch that we are working on. He's graduating this year and joing the Marine Corps! :D I'm very proud of him. His older brother is currently serving in the Air Force and kicking A#*! (Hellfire missles are a SOB!) :p anywho here are some pics of him driving the SVO and his '92 stang......while he's away at boot camp and combat school I'm going to pull the dents and dings and repaint his stang for him!

35793580

[Chalky]

That '92 looks like my '93 LX in calypso green. Cute little car, I love mine.