84 SVO Front Suspension Problems

[fxps02]

I realize this is a well worn subject; however,I don’t feel I can find enough information for my scenario so I’ll ask for some patience. In sizing up my new purchase I noticed that my SVO’s ball joints are worn and the previous owner installed a super low springs, which I hate. My question is has anyone swapped the lower control arms from the SN-95 using the Maximum Motorsports SVO spindle adapter and keeping the SVO brakes and Koni’s? And if so what springs did you use, and did the wheel stay in the same location?

http://www.maximummotorsports.com/store/....products_id=444 (http://www.maximummotorsports.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=514_2_84&products_id=444)

[k98dave]

Plenty of info in various posts....for example see http://www.svocop.com/forum/showthread.php?710-Spindle-A-arms

[Raven855]

Yes and no. The problem you will have is the ball joint. The shaft on the joint is just not long enough to engage the nut. You will be lucky to get 2 or 3 threads into the nut. Too dangerous to drive with. You can install the X2 ball joints with the adapters. The current adapters will allow you to do this the last time I check. The very first version of the X2(by Steeda?) would not allow you to do that, it had a short shaft like the standard ball low friction ball joint.

[fxps02]

Thanks for the link with great information, unfortunately the question I still have is what spring gets used with SN95 lower arms with everything else stock SVO? The Maximum Motorsport information specifically says a non-SVO spring must be used. I saw no mention of that reading through the thread, other than someone saying that SVO and SN95 springs are close enough, which is not what MM claims.

[Raven855]

Spring Rates: Fox Body 79-04
updated 3/1/2012 by Raven

Rate(lb/in) Drop(in.)
Useage PartNo. front rear front/rear

'79 -92 Mustang non-V8 370 160
'93 Mustang non-V8 400 160
'79 Mustang Heavy duty/GT 395 160
'79 Mustang TRX 425 175
'80-81 Mustang HD/GT 370 160
'80-81 Mustang TRX 395 175
'82 Mustang HD/GT 395 160
'82-84 Mustang TRX 410 175
'83-84 Mustang HD/GT 410 160
'84 1/2-86 Mustang HD/GT 425-525 200-300
'84-86 Mustang SVO 410 200
'84-86 Mustang SVO Comp Prep 370 200
'87 Mustang 2.3L 370 160
'87-93 Mustang 5.0/LX 400-500 165-265
'87-93 Mustang GT 425-530 200-300
'94-04 Mustang V6 OEM 450 210
'94-04 Mustang V6 convertible 400 190
'94-04 Mustang GT OEM 450 210
'94-04 Mustang GT convertible 400 190
'93 Mustang Cobra 425-530 160
'93 Mustang Cobra R 750-850 240-260
'94-95 Mustang Cobra 400 160
'95 SVT Cobra R M-5310-R58 700-850
M-5560-R58 200-260
'94-04 Mustang V6\GT 450 210
'96-04 Mustang convertible 400 185
'96-98 Mustang Cobra 400-505 165-265
1999 SVT Cobra Coupe 500 470 (IRS) 1999 SVT Cobra Convertible 500 470 (IRS)
2000 SVT Cobra R (Eibach) M-5310-R00 800
M-5560-R00 750 (IRS)
2001 SVT Cobra Coupe 500 470 (IRS) 2001 SVT Cobra Convertible 500 470 (IRS)
2003/04 SVT Cobra OEM 600 600 (IRS)
2003/04 SVT Cobra Convertible 500 470 (IRS)

This will have to do for now. Above are the spring rates. When you install an SVO spring with an SN95 control arm, the car will sit about a 3/8" higher compared to a sn95. This is because the spring cups are positioned on the arms at different heights. If you choose to use the X2 ball joints than you can lower the car using them. Here is a pic of Fords racing X2 vs a standard sn95

3228

[fxps02]

You could use the spindle adapters to re-use your spindles with the SN95 control arms, remember you will not be able to hook up the front fox swaybar to the SN95 stock a-arms. The problem will be with springs. The spring pockets on the SVO are lower than all the other lower control arms. If you try to re-use your springs while not using an SVO lower arm, the car will look like a 4x4. If you use the V8 springs in the non-SVO arms, there will also be a problem with finding the correct ride height, as your 2.3T is not as heavy as the V8. (or it will be super low if using the SVO arms with V8 springs)


This is what I got from MM via email.

[MikeFleming]

3/8" is NOT looking like a 4x4 truck.

[Meotchh]

I agree, are they just trying to up-sell me or am I missing something?

I think you are missing something. They are giving you their honest opinion of what they think it will look like. They didn't say you cannot do what you want to do. They did not say 4x4 truck, they just said 4x4. Around here Subarus are a typical 4x4 vehicle.

If they were trying to upsell you, they would have suggested you get rid of all the stock suspension & buy all new MM suspension bits. They suggested to you the easy way & an affordable work around your problem.

[Raven855]

They suggested to you the easy way & an affordable work around your problem.

With M&M the quality of the information is only as good as the experience of the person you are talking too. This is a very good example. The list of the springs shows how close the spring rates are between the 4 cylinder, 6 and V8. But the main reason is that to use the sn95 arms with the SVO spindle you need the X2 ball joints or you will be unable to turn. The Koni strut is different on the SVO. If you look at the SVO strut and compare it to other struts you will see that the tang that wraps the strut and bolts to the spindle is higher from the bottom of the cartridge. The body of the strut hangs lower and will contact the sn95 arm. If you have a replacement strut or even different Konis you will not have this issue.

[fxps02]

I’m going with a coil-over kit as part of the fix. What spring rates have shown to be best for mostly street use? I’m thinking 300 lb/in.

[MikeFleming]

I run 350 #/in front and 200 rear on my red baron. Note that it weights in at 2800 Lbs total.

[fxps02]

I run 350 #/in front and 200 rear on my red baron. Note that it weights in at 2800 Lbs total.

How hardcore is the "Baron?"

[MikeFleming]

Depends on your definition of "hardcore". Except for all the associated solid-suspension joint rattles, it rides very much like a stock SVO.

[fxps02]

Depends on your definition of "hardcore". Except for all the associated solid-suspension joint rattles, it rides very much like a stock SVO.

I understand that it’s subjective. If you had to choose between #300 or #400 would you step up or down for mostly street use?

[MikeFleming]

For a stock weight car I would stay in the 325-350 range on the front.

[Raven855]

This is where you contact jack and tell him what you are doing. He will ask the vehicle weight, springs in back, what the intention is on driving, ect. He has the software and experience to tell you that you need this range of spring with this strut.

[blueboss]

I realize this is a well worn subject; however,I don’t feel I can find enough information for my scenario so I’ll ask for some patience. In sizing up my new purchase I noticed that my SVO’s ball joints are worn and the previous owner installed a super low springs, which I hate. My question is has anyone swapped the lower control arms from the SN-95 using the Maximum Motorsports SVO spindle adapter and keeping the SVO brakes and Koni’s?

Yes, I have this exact setup. It installed without issue and aligned perfectly.


And if so what springs did you use, and did the wheel stay in the same location?

I used the Motorsport "B" springs. Technically, installing springs doesn't move the wheel, as much as it raises the car. Semantics.....I know. I digress. These springs with stock lca's lowered the car about 1" give or take. After the sn95 lca swap, it raised the front a little. Now, it sits level-ish. The back is about 1/8 - 1/4" higher than the front. Not even noticeable. Also, the sway bar bolted right in with no modification to the lca.


I’m going with a coil-over kit as part of the fix. What spring rates have shown to be best for mostly street use? I’m thinking 300 lb/in.

Bring your checkbook. It's not as easy as slapping on a set of coil overs. There are other issues that require addressing.

[fxps02]

Yes, I have this exact setup. It installed without issue and aligned perfectly.


What did you use for a ball joint, stock or X2?

[blueboss]

Stock. More than acceptable for daily driver duties. Hella cheaper too.

[fxps02]

Yes, I have this exact setup. It installed without issue and aligned perfectly.


What wheel & tire set-up are you running?

[blueboss]

What wheel & tire set-up are you running?

Stock/stock

[Jack Hidley]

Raven855,

I've never heard of either problem you mentioned. I've installed the spindle adapters on an SVO with original Koni struts and there were no interference problems. Can you send me photos?

[fxps02]

I have finally found the time to test fit a set of 03 Cobra LCA’s in my 84 SVO, and I am going to want the flexibility of coil-overs to get the right stance. My understanding is that the stock Koni’s will not work with a coil-over conversion. My two part question is am I correct in the previous statement, and if so what application do I need to source replacement struts from? (87-93 Fox, SN95)

[svopony]

yellow koni will work along with the coil conversion kit from MM you will also need camber and caster plates

MM sells the whole package or just the parts you need

Bar

[MikeFleming]

The top strut [cartridge] nut on the stock SVO KONO struts must come off the strut for the CO adjuster to slide down over the strut body. Next, there are a couple spot welds on the strut body (stock SVO KONIs) that will need trimming/grinding to allow the CO adapter sleeve to seat fully. Lastly, if you lower the car at all, the stock KONI struts will be too long and bottom easily.

Get KONI SA or DA struts for a Fox 87-93 (all same). And a good low-profile CC plate setup. Make sure the sheet metal in the upper strut towers is fully intact - perhaps even seam weld the whole tower assembly - ALL of the front suspension loads will be passed through the upper mount area when using a CO installation

If you're also going CO in the rear, you will want to add some rear rear shock tower upper mount reinforcement. The stock sheet metal leaves a lot to be desired. The MM reinforcement kits for the rear are a joke, imho.

Then you get to select spring rates and lengths. Fun stuff.

[Jack Hidley]

The welded cap on the top of the Koni strut performs a function. It is to keep the bumpstop from getting shoved into the strut shaft seal. It is better to grind the OD of this cap down so the threaded coilover sleeve can be slid over it, rather than remove the cap. The Koni SA and DA aftermarket struts have a smooth top to the housing and use a plastic washer to perform this same function.

If you install MM c/c plates with the coilover kit, the car will gain over 1" of bump travel, so the SVO struts will work ok.

I'm not sure what Mike is referring to as an MM rear shock tower reinforcement kit. We don't make one.

[fxps02]

Mike & Jack, thanks for the tech info. Projects like mine would not be possible without resources like this for information.

I need new struts & shocks anyway, so the Koni yellows should do the trick and fit easier. One follow-up question, if at some future point I wanted to install SN95 spindles, would the 87-93 Fox struts still be correct?

[Jack Hidley]

Yes, 1987-93 struts will bolt to any SN95 spindle.

[svopony]

Jack,
if he is still using the SVO spindles he needs to use the red Konis

also he needs the bushings for the ball jiont

when he changes to the SN95 spindles that is when you need to switch to the yellow konis (main reason is the red Konis will hit the SN95 spindle and the bolt pattern is differant between the 2 spindles

I remember doing the same conversion.

Bar

[Jack Hidley]

Bar,

My measurements show that the c-c spacing of the bolts for SVO, Fox V8 (11" brakes) and all SN95 spindles are 57mm. The Fox spindles with 9" and 10" brakes have the bolt spacing of 53.7mm.

[svopony]

Bar,

My measurements show that the c-c spacing of the bolts for SVO, Fox V8 (11" brakes) and all SN95 spindles are 57mm. The Fox spindles with 9" and 10" brakes have the bolt spacing of 53.7mm.

?

all I know is when I did the swap he is doing with the SVO spindles and SN 95 A arms I needed the spindle bushings for correct contact and I could still run the red Konis
but when I upgraded to the SN 95 spindles and cobra brakes I could not use the red Konis and had to switch to the yellows

Bar