My engine build and Project KTMOTC!

[brownsvo]

Project Keep the miles off the Cobra


Long story short i spun a bearing.. the oil pump was a stock replacement but for whatever reason it decided it was time for an engine rebuild.. Anyways after dropping my crank, pistons/rods, and block off at the machine shop i found out some things i didnt know...and apparently the last owner either since he never mentioned it.
What i have is my 1985 SVO, what i assumed was all stock, is actually a .030 over turbo block. Good news is the block is useable, bad news is the crank was trashed (getting one from a member here hopefully ;) ) One of the pistons had a scraped up skirt so it was suggested i get a replacement .030 piston/rod. this go around i hope to build the engine myself. i have STD size Sealed power Rings which i spent 75$ on..trying to locate some .030 over rings now.


The pistons the previous owner installed are "Sealed Power WL-2500, .030 pistons with stock Ford Rods.. this is #1
http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff259/Brown7_8805/20130501_172318_zpsf77148ad.jpg (http://s243.photobucket.com/user/Brown7_8805/media/20130501_172318_zpsf77148ad.jpg.html)
http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff259/Brown7_8805/20130501_172340_zps3c61025d.jpg (http://s243.photobucket.com/user/Brown7_8805/media/20130501_172340_zps3c61025d.jpg.html)
http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff259/Brown7_8805/20130307_173435_zpscd48e14f.jpg (http://s243.photobucket.com/user/Brown7_8805/media/20130307_173435_zpscd48e14f.jpg.html)

[dagenham]

The crank is not fixable???

[brownsvo]

The machine shop said it was not, it had been turned already.

[brownsvo]

Monday morning update!
-Still saving for Pistons and rings.
-Rods in the mail somewhere
-Broke my bolt remover in one of the frozen turbo bolts.. i dont have the money for a new one either so it coming apart is a must.
http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff259/Brown7_8805/20130602_174732_zpsad7cc7de.jpg (http://s243.photobucket.com/user/Brown7_8805/media/20130602_174732_zpsad7cc7de.jpg.html)

[Chuck]

When I took my turbo apart, 3 of the bolts broke and a machine shop had to take them out ultrasonically.

[brownsvo]

I have the old bolts 80% drilled out and the turbo is still together so the potential for shavings inside is high. I wanted to take the easy route and tap whats left of the bolts with smaller bolts so i can get the turbo working in an "as-is" condition until i can save for another one. Ill have to ask my machine shop to see what my options are. i didnt have any problems with it before so hopefully it doesnt come down to rebuilding.

[MikeFleming]

Broken bolts in the turbine housing?? The 8mm ones?

Just take the turbine housing off the CHRA then there are no worries about shavings. It's good practice too!

[brownsvo]

I have the compressor side off, the exhaust side will not spin on the centerhousing of the turbo allowing me to take all the bolts off. ill have to

[in2fords]

When I rebuilt my turbo one of them broke in the housing, once off it was easy to drill and tap.
You have to loosen all the bolts and then turn it to remove a few of them. I had small cracks in the center chunk around the waste gate so I look at a couple used ones for replacement, one had cracks all the way to the hotside mounting surface! Not sure if those were from excessive heat or beating it to get the housing off.

[brownsvo]

question, aside from the obvious thickness, do piston rings come in std/.010/.030 oversized etc? Looking at the pistons i have now it says it uses the ringset i just sold. What confuses me is there is no actual size on the box.

[MikeFleming]

Rings come in two types: Specific size and file-to-fit.

Since this is a metric negine, there are Standard size, 0.25mm oversize, 0.50mm oversize, 0.75 and 1.00mm oversize. THat translates roughly to 0.0099", 0.0199", ... .Close enough for most installations.

File-to-fit riings are specifically made ~0.005" over the stated size and MUST be filed and fit to the actual bores. For example if you ordered FTF rings in +.030" size, you'd get them in +0.035". They would have very little or no end gap when installed into a 0.030" OS bore.

In any case ALL rigns should be checked - and adjusted as needed - for end gap in the actual bore they will be installed in.
r
Measue the bores then get rings to fit the bore (diameter) with ring thickness to match the pistons.

[brownsvo]

what gets me is the description on federal-moguls parts search is this:

Turbocharged; Type: Forged Piston - Individual;
Use w/E-441K ring set; Powerforged; ---- Premium piston ring set Moly top ring 2-2mm, 1-4.76mm Standard size
2 Ring(s); 5/64 Groove; 1 Ring(s); 3/16 Groove;
1.598 CD; Recessed Head .095 deep. DUROSHIELD® skirt coated piston.; 0.9123" Pin Dia.;
.75MM Oversize

e441k is the only part number to show up for the Vin-T. they have other rings in the Diameter i need and moly coated but listed as Naturally aspirated.

[MikeFleming]

Turbocharged; Type: Forged Piston - Individual;
Forged turbo piston, sold individually

English translations below.

Use w/E-441K ring set; Powerforged; ---- Premium piston ring set Moly top ring 2-2mm, 1-4.76mm Standard size
description of ring set. Should come in a size matched to the piston size. STD is for standard (stock) bore, +0.75mm is for the +0.75mm (aka +0.030") piston.


2 Ring(s); 5/64 Groove; 1 Ring(s); 3/16 Groove;
Width of rings in package. Top two ring grooves in the pistons are 5/64" and the oil ring groove is 3/16"

1.598 CD; Recessed Head .095 deep. DUROSHIELD® skirt coated piston.; 0.9123" Pin Dia.;
.75MM Oversize
1.598 compression height (distance from piston pin centerline to top of flat of piston.
Dished head, 0.095" depth of dish. Sometimes they list the volume of the dish, in negative cc's.
Coated piston skirts. The latest fad.
Piston pin diameter for the supplied pin and the piston. These are a press-fit to the rod.
.75mm (~0.030") oversize.


e441k is the only part number to show up for the Vin-T. they have other rings in the Diameter i need and moly coated but listed as Naturally aspirated. If they make a moly/iron/3-piece ring set for NA in the sizes you need, they'll be fine. Naturally you'll need them in +0.75mm (+0.030"). 5/46. 5/46, 3/16.

Call ans ask if htey have the correct sized rings for the OS turbo pistons. Might not be listed in the catalogs.

Alternately contact Race Engineering what what you need.

[brownsvo]

the dimensions are the same and lists the top ring as moly, 2-2mm and 1-4.76. I will place my order and hopefully get this stuff together in the near future. thank you for clarifying :)

[MikeFleming]

4.76mm = 0.1874012"
3/16" = 0.1875

== Same.

Note that one spec is usually the width of the slot in the piston. The ring width MUST be smaller (narrower) than the groove or they won't fit together - press-fit rings would be bad. Typical groove-to-ring clearance is in the 0.0005-0.0008". Something else to check when test-fitting all the parts before assembly.

[brownsvo]

Well, contrary to the title i have not kept very many miles off the cobra..in fact Ive driven it all over Texas lol.. Its been almost 4 months since i reenlisted and sold some leave, with that i was supposed to get a sum of money i would be using to fix Betty..sadly finance sucks and i haven't seen a dime. She has taken a beating sitting outside these long 4 months, taking a beating so the mystichrome can stay safe in my little one car garage. I have kept an eye out for N/A blocks i could acquire on the cheap or even free, sadly the cheapest Ive found is 150$.
Finally i said to myself, the time is coming..soon... I washed her and put her in the one car garage so she could get a break from these Texas elements and hopefully soon a heart transplant.
The current state of Betty, the 1985 Mustang SVO :(
Honed..waiting on .030 over pistons when i can get some money together.
4991
what a freaking mess of wires.. Doing some wire tuck..nothing crazy
4992
We've chugged thru (2) aux gear failures
4987
a new stance...
4988
a New mistress.....Misty
4989
Angry birds.. :(
4990
a 75mph-ish rain storm
http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff259/Brown7_8805/th_20130617_181155_zpsf399bc4b.jpg (http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff259/Brown7_8805/20130617_181155_zpsf399bc4b.mp4)

[brownsvo]

well today my x-wife threw a rod in her focus.. needless to say she doesnt want to fix it and i may have aquired another car.. it fits my need for a vehicle with great gas milage(when i swap the motor)
I love the svo and that old car feeling but i really dont have the time or money to throw at it anymore.. My cobra eats enough of my money as it is lol..I guess ill see once i get the svo fixed and see how i feel about 3 cars.

[brownsvo]

Well i decided to stop being lazy.. still waiting on my reenlistment bonus to buy pistons...sigh..
Anyways, I decided i would replace the valveseals in mah head. :) Notice the seals are torn apart? smoke at startup problem fixed....bingo! I have also found those rings in peices around the engine.
Only issue i found was one of my valves is brown.. :/ I did clean them off with a dishpad and valve cleaning compound. i need to get around to pressure washing the head off and touching it up pretty ford blue ;)
It pains me knowing this would be the perfect time to upgrade to a roller setup or even a Boport cam..but i barely have enough money to pay my bills month to month so ill be cleaning this as best i can and putting
it back together. As much trouble as the ranger cams sound i figured it wouldnt be worth swapping...buut that could change. I used the svo 90% for under 50mph daily driving so it might not be a bad idea... :)
5052

[Mike S]

Those are the incorrect valve stem seals. No wonder the top of the piston looked like crud and you were smoking.

[MikeFleming]

^
Those seals were probably changed previously using seals available in the mid- to late 80's. That was the current seal at the time. Totally worthless seals for this application, btw.

[brownsvo]

the new seals are felpro out of a gasket kit. they look like small metal buckets with a small spring on top. Keep in mind the engine was rebuilt at some time hence the .030 over pistons. i agree they are trash as i found those small metal bits floating around the head. gaskets and bearings will be getting replaced as the cam bearing had some aged discoloration on them as well (well slick spots)

I am learning more and more about this engine every day haha..

[SVOC]

Just for future reference



http://www.explorerforum.com/photopost/data/3549/PA210828.JPG

http://www.explorerforum.com/photopost/data/3549/PA210829.JPG

http://www.explorerforum.com/photopost/data/3549/PA210830.JPG

http://www.explorerforum.com/photopost/data/3549/PA210831.JPG

http://www.explorerforum.com/photopost/data/3540/PB070907.JPG

[MikeFleming]

Add some of this during assembly to reduce the amount of propane needed on dis-assembly.

5053

[brownsvo]

thanks for the turbo pictures.. Mine all broke flush with the exhaust side when i took it off almost a year ago. I was too excited to put on 3in :)

[brownsvo]

Finally got my money.. Pistons ordered, Rings ordered, Oil pump ordered.. forgot to get a new pick up tube bleh.. ill get it eventually..

Changing the TOB and Clutch cable on my Mystichrome Cobra tommarrow....so excited..
:avataraFu_BangingYo

[brownsvo]

So playing with my turbo the other day in the garage, the wheel is alot harder to spin now so i squirted some oil and spun it by hand.. i rounded the last bolt off and cant get the dam thing to spin lol.. I know of another t3 turbo at the junkyard from a murkur, but..... i broke all the bolts on it when i was getting the elbow. I pretty much blew thru my money on bills and stuff so i may have to scoop up that JY turbo and extract the bolts.
Ordered my diamond pistons from Flatlander around the 26th and they ship directly from the manufacturor so i hope to get these sometime soon.

[brownsvo]

i got the turbo apart lol.. one of the exhaust side bolts i had to cut off bleh..

Good news is i got my rods resized to accept the floating pistons.. dun dun duuuun :)

[brownsvo]

well, its been almost what.. 6 months now. started with a picture of an empty block, now here is a picture of a filled block :)
http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff259/Brown7_8805/20131021_122020_zps71f0d5c1.jpg

[JTurbo]

What happened to the picture???

[brownsvo]

Lol reorganized my albums.
This is the last picture I took. I've got the head put on, all accessories mounted and some sensors plugged in. Over the past week I put the transmission back in and now stumped on the hard water lines, the fuel rail situation, and typical questions associated with inline to square intake swap. I'm so freaking close.
I still need to adjust the dp because we welded it too low, renew registration, and hopefully it doesn't need inspected so I can putt around. Matter of fact I'm getting ancy just thinking about it. going to turn some wrenches for lunch.

http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff259/Brown7_8805/20131024_184114_zps2d8fa156.jpg

[brownsvo]

Ever wonder how long an svo will run without the hex shaft at the end of the distributor and oil pump? ill tell you, about 30 minutes. I siliconed it in at one point and spun the aux shaft by hand, i saw it spew oil out of the passages. i installed the motor had it running 30 minutes.. died at the end of my driveway, started up and adjusted timing, click, nope wont start, click, nope wont start, try turning by hand, nope wont turn. thanks. im about finished with this car. 6 months of waiting and something minor like the Aux setup screwed me over again. this is the third time that little area has made me want to punch kittens.


i had zero oil pressure, i figured i didnt have the right boot on the sensor so i replaced the sensor. I was tracking down a diagram to figure it out today.

[JTurbo]

Ouch!

[MikeFleming]

I'm confused. Does the hex rod you have not have the positioning thingie (push-on spring clip) on it? It should not be removable from the top, but only after removing the oil pump.

[brownsvo]

It does have the disk on it but Ive always put it in from the top. I never thought about it going in with the oil pump as I usually think of it as part of the distributor.

[MikeFleming]

That "disk" is supposed to keep it between the pump body on the bottom and the casting boss in the bock at the top. With the more tapered end of the shaft upwards (towards the top of the block) so it will slide easier into the bottom hex pening of the distributor shaft. Then when installing the dist, it pushes the shaft down into the oil pump hex drive (positive stop dwnwards) and the disk keeps it from coming up out of the oil pump hex when removing the dist assy.

I may have some pics somewehre but I'm too lazy (or tired - it;s hard to tell the difference sometimes) to look just now. Maybe over the weekend.

[brownsvo]

i know what you're talking about. when i was outside pulling my motor i realized why it didnt have the disk.. last time i had an Aux gear failure i replaced the pump and forgot to put the shaft in after everything was bolted in. I took the disk off and slid it into the top.

#2 piston rod bearing welded itself together, and then onto the crank. fingers crossed it can be turned as it left a booger of material that will not peel off.

[MikeFleming]

I had a similar incident many decades ago on a SBF. The rod is much longer and the "feel" of installing the distributor and getting proper hex shaft engagement is less sure. Yep, made it about 30-40 spirited miles before it died. I learned then what Mark Webber often feels today.

[brownsvo]

An idea of what im dealing with, 1 car garage, basic tools. Ive been in a 5 hour class during the day for Hazardous materials preparer, then roughly 6-8 hours a day bolting everything together this past week. I dont have a lift, i rigged some chains and straps to a probably smaller than it should be beam with a come-along as my hoist. I originally wanted this done by oct...buut shtuff happens.
http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff259/Brown7_8805/20131107_180121_zps1fb1c39d.jpg (http://s243.photobucket.com/user/Brown7_8805/media/20131107_180121_zps1fb1c39d.jpg.html)
http://i243.photobucket.com/albums/ff259/Brown7_8805/20131107_192048_zpsdf778d90.jpg (http://s243.photobucket.com/user/Brown7_8805/media/20131107_192048_zpsdf778d90.jpg.html)

[84svounoh]

Dedication I like it lol

[brownsvo]

Well.. engine is back in and still wont budge. i replaced all bearings and polished the crank, re-lubed with new assembly grease, torqued back to spec and nothing. i cant get it to turn over by hand or with starter. the transmission is in as well, i cant get it to budge in gear or in neutral so im out of ideas and patience. this project has drained me financially and spiritually so im afraid ive done my best of keeping the rednecks from putting a 5.o in it as im done and its going on craigslist soon. If anyone has any ideas of what to do let me know.

[MikeFleming]

Was the crank turn-able when the engine was on the stand being assembled? It had to turn at some point just to install the rod caps.

[Chalky]

Sounds like the oil pump might be locked up?!?!?!?!

[brownsvo]

oil pump is new and works when distributor is stabbed
it did turn when i installed the new bearings, but didn't bother putting it to #1TDC like i should of, something got jacked up with the rear seal as well.. it spit oil out when i started to fill it up like there was a giant hole in the back.

[Meotchh]

If you remove the timing belt, can you turn the crank? How about the cam?

[brownsvo]

Cam turns. Crank will not via the pully bolt.

I'm going to pull it one more time.

[MikeFleming]

You have a pickup truck and some free time over a weekend? I can put together a spare engine stand. Arizona isn't that far away from Texas.

Just sayin'.

[brownsvo]

Unfortunately I have two impractical cars, the terminator and the brokeVO.

I just need time and motivation.

[brownsvo]

i put my svo on craigslist today. i found out im deploying in around jan and need 1 less thing to move. chances are someone will give me cash, low ball me, or i wont sell. so either way i suppose its better than doing nothing. i may have to tempt my luck and pull the engine again but im really lacking the motivation to do it. again.

[MikeFleming]

Or just wait until after you return from deployment.

And be careful out there.

[brownsvo]

i am divorced and have 1.5 cars. i will not leave my cobra with my xwife as she managed to break stuff on my svo when it was parked lol. so my stuff will go to storage. i doubt anyone will want it as its christmas time and money is tied up so ill probably get really really caffienated and do what i can.

im doing postal duty in Kuwait, easy :)

[MikeFleming]

Im doing postal duty in Kuwait, easy :) Watch out for paper cuts then!

[Coney Warrior]

im doing postal duty in Kuwait, easy :)

I would hold on to the SVO and wait till you come home to mess around with it, maybe you will figure out the prob. I know this, I have a 1990 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX that Ive been to hell and back with along with my SVO and theres been many times I just got frustrated with it to the point where I almost took a bat to it, burned it, ect. Sometimes walking away from it for a bit and gathering yourself is the best thing. I finally got it going, and you will too just have faith. Either way, be careful out there and thank you for your service, I salute all you armed force personell.

[brownsvo]

Well, my project has come to an end.. its not the way i wanted it to end but i suppose its for the best.
Put SVO on craigslist for 1500$, guy picked it up the next day for 1400. from this ive learned a few things...

Good things:
-I got more experiance than i wanted.
-I have an empty garage to park my cobra in now
-One less thing to throw money at.

Bad things:
-I no longer have a 2nd car, then again i havnt had one for the past 6 months so i suppose i wont miss out

well i guess thats it.. ill have to dig around my garage and post up whatever knick knacks i have left and clean up.

[MikeFleming]

Sigh.

[brownsvo]

yeah.. i know the feeling.
if i didnt have this deployment i would of kept it.

on a positive note the new owner knew something about them, but i suspect he is a typical parts car collector so someone else will be fixing it in another 5-10 years.

[MikeFleming]

We will revisit your SVO Ownership status when you return from your deployment. Maybe if Mitch still has his black 86 then, ...

[Meotchh]

We will revisit your SVO Ownership status when you return from your deployment. Maybe if Mitch still has his black 86 then, ...

Stay safe in the sand box. There are still plenty SVOs out there & as Mike mentioned, mine may still be available:like3:.

[SnakePlisskin]

Wow, just read this. I know you sold it, but that engine is junk. It would need a new crank at least and a complete overhaul. Always check you oil pressure asap on a new engine startup, if you have none shut it off, you have a problem!! Having oil pressure is your number 1 priority on a new startup, everything else is secondary, pricey lesson here for you and I hope people can learn from this. Also take your time and go over all items a few times to make sure all the parts,pieces,bolts torqued properly and everything is lubed up.
Happy wrenching!

[FoxBuddy]

Wow, just read this.

I just read through the ending. This makes me sad.


Sigh.

Totally. What did I get myself into! LOL. In my short ownership I have yet to do anything. I bought a very good driver quality original. Heater core and cosmetics are first. Hope mechanical isn't for a while other than valve seals.
Stay safe in the sand box. There are still plenty SVOs out there & as Mike mentioned, mine may still be available:like3:.


Good luck!

[SnakePlisskin]

Darran, I know what I got into! lol. I got a clean original car also, clean paint and no rust is at top of my list when buying an older car. Mechanicals are easy for me, been doing it my whole life!
I'll probably do a heater core also just because. I've done the deed before so I know the drill.