What oil are you using?

[rodster]

May be too early to tell if the latest low zinc and phosphorous API SN oils are OK for our cars (which originally called for API SF) , but do we have much of a choice?

Anyone logged quite a few miles on the SN oil with no problems?

[brownsvo]

ive stuck with the motorcraft oil for quite awhile. i think the greatest contributor to exploded distributor is the oil pump.

[k98dave]

Quaker State has come out with oil that clams to be higher zinc for older cars. Its labeled "Defy" http://www.quakerstate.com/#/motor-oil/defy

Don't know what the content of zinc, but 1100-to- 1200 ppm is what considered the correct amount.

Kendall GT1 20w50 also has 1200PPM zinc but its not easy to find around here for some reason.

I'm going with a roller set up so I'll be using Penzoil Ultra which is what I have been using in my other cars.

[rodster]

The problem with the oil for the 'older' cars, is that the zinc/phosphorus levels may be too high for 'older' cars with catalytic converters. Unfortunately the levels usually aren't listed on the container so maybe I'll just go with an API SN oil and hope for the best.

What weight are you using? I wonder how our turbos would like the 0W- oils?

[k98dave]

That's the reason the feds had the zinc removed, it reduced the life of the converters but it takes a long time for that to happen. Cats have been on cars since 1973! However cats are a lot cheaper and easier to replace than cams and lifters. If your still running the flat tappet cam then either use one of these oils or use ZDDP additive.

As I said I'm switching to a roller set up along with a complete valve job. I can see how my cam is worn, it looks like about .003 to .005 off the top of the lobes. The original owner changed oil every 3K miles but just used regular oil with no additives.

I use 10w40. Not sure about the new 0 W oils on older cars, I know all the new Mustangs including the GT500 use 0W50 from the factory, the modular Fords have really close tolerances. I haven't seen this 0w50 for sale in any local stores so not sure who makes it.

[MikeFleming]

The reduced zinc/phosphorous in oils was done to fulfill a request from General Motors. They were warranty-replacing too many cat conv's (which means less than five years of use, closer to 2/3 years) and requested the EPA to reduce those components in the oil to help them out. And large vehicle mfgrs have a LOT of pull.

The early 2-way oxidation CC's aren't effected by higher zinc/phosphorous like the newer 3-way+ ones are. Besides all of the 2-way units are at least 25years old by now. And since the reduction, the average effrctive life of cat conv's has more then tripled. To me.that's a good thing.

[k98dave]

"And since the reduction, the average effective life of cat conv's has more then tripled. To me.that's a good thing".

That's fine for the newer cars that most use every day, but for older cars its not a good thing, especially the "pre cat" era cars. I'm sure the current bunch in the EPA would like to not have any of these cars allowed on the road if they could.

[MikeFleming]

I'm sure the current bunch in the EPA would like to not have any of these cars allowed on the road if they could. I seriously doubt anyone at EPA thinks about older cars more than a microsecond a decade, about the same as the companies that made them. Why should they? Most of them (old cars) don't see enough usage to be of any concern. No required (state-enforced) emissions checks past 25 years nationwide is proof of that.

Old cars are just like old software. Companies that made that stuff don't support it. Don't patch it, don't make anything that works with it now, etc. And the older the cars get, even the remanufacturers/rebuilders of parts for them don't make stuff anymore. Same thing for 20+ year old dishwashers, television sets, & application software for MS-DOS 1.1 or even Win95 (or anti-virus software for W2K!). The market is extremely limited for old stuff and there's no profit there. And companies today don't do stuff just 'cause it's fun and it's has been done in the family for generations. Iirc Ford completely "forgot" about the SVO by 1995 and started dropping supported/available parts around then.

Oil companies make products for the largest volume of current customers and for future customers, such as the manufacturers. Vehicle manufacturers have had the most influence on EPA regulations - much more than any other group. And, I suspect, those same vehicle mfgrs would love for you and everyone else to stop driving old cars and buy new ones. Or at least buy new ones.

Some specialty oil companies make products for older cars specifically, but those items will probably not be available at most retailers. And they will cost more. Or you can go the additive route, which has it's own issues.

I was over at my fabricator's shop earlier today. He's making fenders and interior panels for a 32 Ford just now. Rusted out in several places and no spares are available anywhere. So he's cutting out the rusted sections, hammering out new pieces, spot welding, riveting, etc. new sheet metal parts for the car.

[dagenham]

I was over at my fabricator's shop earlier today. He's making fenders and interior panels for a 32 Ford just now. Rusted out in several places and no spares are available anywhere. So he's cutting out the rusted sections, hammering out new pieces, spot welding, riveting, etc. new sheet metal parts for the car.

I dont think your fabricator looked very hard. There are several companies out there that makes steel repair panels for the '32 Ford, as well as complete steel bodies from Brookville Bodies.

[mrzw70]

You might try looking at motorcycle specific oils. Many of the bikes within the last decade still called for sf specific oil. Motorcycle oils also tend to have zinc added as the engine oil also lubricates the transmission as well. Worth a shot anyway.

[MikeFleming]

I dont think your fabricator looked very hard. There are several companies out there that makes steel repair panels for the '32 Ford, as well as complete steel bodies from Brookville Bodies. I should know better than to post on nights when Pat is consuming beer, but I do it anyway.

I lied about the '32 Ford. The car fenders & assorted panels are being made for a 1936 Packard 12, of which 39 total were originally produced, with five known remaining. This particular car is owned by Harry Miller.

Dennis (the welder/fabricator) drives a 1933 Ford 3-window coupe. And a F-150 pick-em-up. His ex-wife is an original owner of an 84 SVO, which she is wanting to sell (I've not seen it). Dennis said it has some electrical isues.

Vid:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ig1GyverxRc

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[rodster]

dir /p ;)


Thanks for the info.

From Wiki:

Since 1981, "three-way" (oxidation-reduction) catalytic converters have been used in vehicle emission control systems in the United States and Canada.

Even if our cars have a three-way, I tend to agree, a cat would be cheaper to replace than internals.

Despite lower zinc/phos levels, 5W30 Pennzoil Ultra, API SM gets good grades for wear prevention so I might give it a try if I can find it.

[rodster]

Made a call to Quaker State tech today 1-800-BestOil (actually Shell phone number, Shell owns QS) and after an informative conversation regarding options for today's oil in our 80's cars, I think I'll be looking for a Shell Rotella API SM multi-grade oil, probably 10w-40. According to the tech, who seemed very knowledgeable, all Shell Rotella multi grade oils contain 1200 ppm zinc, suitable for our cars.

If I recall our conversation correctly, I believe he said Quaker State Defy 10w-30 contains 1000ppm zinc and only the 10w-40 contains 1200ppm, both only sold in quarts. Don't remember if it was API SM or SN?

He was not too positive on additives and mentioned ILSAC is the standard driving lower zinc levels.

He also mentioned due to tighter tolerances in engines and demands for higher fuel mileage, 0w-16 is the next oil on the horizon! Crazy....

[Under Pressure]

I had the aux gear destroyed before and I want to go with a light weight oil also. I think 0 w-20w is to light for the heat of the turbo. I'm going to go with a 10 w-30w Royal Purple or Valvoline as I read they are high in zinc and I'm running a flat tappet can. What weight are you running?

[rodster]

I had the aux gear destroyed before and I want to go with a light weight oil also. I think 0 w-20w is to light for the heat of the turbo. I'm going to go with a 10 w-30w Royal Purple or Valvoline as I read they are high in zinc and I'm running a flat tappet can. What weight are you running?

Shell Rotella 15w-40

[gt anny]

Mobil 1 syn 5w 30 never had a problem with it and been using for years.

[Boport]

Valvoline VR-1 or Red Line depending how much I want to spend, both 5w-30

[Under Pressure]

I'm using the Valvoline VR1 5-30w, now that I've got the engine leaks fixed.

[Raven855]

I had the aux gear destroyed before and I want to go with a light weight oil also. I think 0 w-20w is to light for the heat of the turbo. I'm going to go with a 10 w-30w Royal Purple or Valvoline as I read they are high in zinc and I'm running a flat tappet can. What weight are you running?

I have been running the Royal Purple 0W-20 in several cars since 03. The 0w-20 is specked for the 03 Cobra and I have been using it since then. It is in a daily driver Svo, autocross Svo and a track Svo. The old adage of Smokey Yunick was 10lbs oil pressure per 1k rpms. A lot of the racers to day subscribe to the adage of 10lbs per 100hp.

[rodster]

I have been running the Royal Purple 0W-20 in several cars since 03. The 0w-20 is specked for the 03 Cobra and I have been using it since then. It is in a daily driver Svo, autocross Svo and a track Svo. The old adage of Smokey Yunick was 10lbs oil pressure per 1k rpms. A lot of the racers to day subscribe to the adage of 10lbs per 100hp.

Wow, 0w-20. Seems so light but if you have been using it in all of those SVO's guess that's proof that it works. Do the cars have rollers or flat tappet? The low Zinc levels in the newer oils is what initially concerned me.

[k98dave]

"I'm going to go with a 10 w-30w Royal Purple or Valvoline as I read they are high in zinc and I'm running a flat tappet cam. "

If your still running original flat tappet cams then you better be using a additive like ZDDP. Syn Oil, no matter how good it is will not stop cam lobe ware as they no longer have the 1200 PPM that's considered minimum level. My original cam had almost .007 missing from the top of the lobes That's why I went to a roller for my engine rebuild.
As for the best syn oil from testing...Pennzoil platimum out scores everything else, and btw Royal Purple did'n rank very well at all for shear PSI.

[Raven855]

Wow, 0w-20. Seems so light but if you have been using it in all of those SVO's guess that's proof that it works. Do the cars have rollers or flat tappet? The low Zinc levels in the newer oils is what initially concerned me.
I can't say anything about the wear, I haven't noticed it. If the lower amounts of zddp are a concern then look at the RP HPS or XPR line. The HPS has comparable levels of ZDDP as the older spec oil.

[Raven855]

As for the best syn oil from testing...Pennzoil platimum out scores everything else, and btw Royal Purple did'n rank very well at all for shear PSI.
All oils contain paraffins but what you have to watch for are oils that contain paraffin waxes and synthetic waxes in the manufacturing of the base stock. This is especially true of oils used in a turbo environments. Pennzoil platinum contains the wax stocks that many in the turbo world don't like or recommend.

[Under Pressure]

I'm running a new flat tappet Comp.Cam I would believe that they have upgraded the metal alloy for today's oil specs. The Ford followers might be a different story. I like the Dinosaur stuff.

[rodster]

"I'm going to go with a 10 w-30w Royal Purple or Valvoline as I read they are high in zinc and I'm running a flat tappet cam. "

If your still running original flat tappet cams then you better be using a additive like ZDDP. Syn Oil, no matter how good it is will not stop cam lobe ware as they no longer have the 1200 PPM that's considered minimum level. My original cam had almost .007 missing from the top of the lobes That's why I went to a roller for my engine rebuild.
As for the best syn oil from testing...Pennzoil platimum out scores everything else, and btw Royal Purple did'n rank very well at all for shear PSI.

Additives can be a guessing game too which is why I choose an oil with a claimed 1200ppm zinc. How much of a difference does it really make, I don't know, but at least I think I'm doing the best thing based on what I know.