post tune up trouble

[Paulofolympia]

Hi. I replaced plugs, wires, cap, rotor and filled with fresh gas. Everything went reasonably well, but my problems persist. It runs well when out of boost, but under boost it falls off, stumbles, hesitates and acts funny. Then it was hard to start and now it won't start at all. I am stranded. In a downtown parking lot. It acts like it has run out of gas. If I turn it on/off repeatedly it almost wants to start but no. I can hear the fuel pump come on with the ignition. I think I need to replace the fuel filter. Where is it located and do I need to jack it up to get at it? Do I need special tools? It will either be a parking lot repair tomorrow or AAA. It could have been something I did during my tune but I sort of doubt it because it started and ran fine for an hour or so and I felt ok about the project. Any help appreciated, desperate. Thanks.

[Ford Builder]

It sounds like a fuel problem , did you change the fuel filter ? if you have a 84 or 85 one of your pumps may have quit, you may have in tank pump and mid pump to deal with.

[brsvo]

I would check for spark first! The TFI's are known to cause sudden loss of spark. This is the plastic piece bolted to the distributer. Lots of people carry a spare and the tool to change it in the glove box along with a dog bone clutch cable. Very common roadside repairs. Bruce

[Paulofolympia]

I did not replace the fuel filter. What will I do to accomplish this? My svo is an 86 and I do hear the fuel pump engage from the back of the car. Because the car had been sitting, and because it was hard to start just prior to my emergency, and by cycling the key to on a number of times I can get it to pop but not start, I hope it's a simple filter replace repair. I have not replaced a fuel filter in a svo before. Thanks.
I would check for spark first! The TFI's are known to cause sudden loss of spark. This is the plastic piece bolted to the distributer. Lots of people carry a spare and the tool to change it in the glove box along with a dog bone clutch cable. Very common roadside repairs. Bruce

[brsvo]

If it has spark then the fuel filter is just behind the rear end pumpkin and has duck bill type clips and a band strap around it. But check spark first I doubt the fuel filter plugged up that quick. Also if you are going to remove the filter wait till morning or bleed the pressure off at the shrader valve on the firewall or fuel rail before doing it. Gas showers are not fun or safe! The symptoms you stated when running OK out of boost sound like Knock sensor pulling timing under boost.

[Paulofolympia]

If it has spark then the fuel filter is just behind the rear end pumpkin and has duck bill type clips and a band strap around it. But check spark first I doubt the fuel filter plugged up that quick. Also if you are going to remove the filter wait till morning or bleed the pressure off at the shrader valve on the firewall or fuel rail before doing it. Gas showers are not fun or safe! The symptoms you stated when running OK out of boost sound like Knock sensor pulling timing under boost.
To check spark would I pull a plug out and crank the motor to look for a spark in the plug gap?

[TheSVOTrust]

Search for TFI and "bouncing Tach" when cranking. (Or someone with info - you can use that as the signal to fire plugs) If you pull the number one wire and ground to head when cranking you should see spark. IF YOU DON'T you need to remove the round plug on the timing cover and have someone crank while you look to see if the cam is turning. IF IT IS, you need to remove the distributer cap and have someone crank to see if the rotor is spinning. Mark P.S. Once we know what it is doing then you can go from there. Can call tomorrow - I'm not going anywhere in the 2 feet of snow!

[NY eric]

my vote would be TFI. I am one of "those people" who carry a dogbone and a TFI in my glove box. ....Been there done that...

[Paulofolympia]

Going to have my car towed home this morning so that I can work on it here. What is the TFI and can I order it at NAPA? Is it expensive? Do I need a eec iv sensor ( a friend has one). Some of these diagnosis will need to wait for a second person. Thanks.

[TheSVOTrust]

call when you get it

[Kendal Coker]

Also check to see if the distributor is turning. Roll pin is bad to shear.

[TheSVOTrust]

taked to paul (he will resoond) got car home started. (With no work)
looking for info on TFI and Ing switch

[Paulofolympia]

Hi. I had it towed home and changed the fuel filter. The old filter seemed ok to me as fuel flowed from both holes- it was not plugged. My car started and ran with a hunting idle between 1100 rpm and dropping to 900 rpm, almost like a stumble. I warmed it up and then ran a "key on engine off" test using a Ford code reader. I got a code 24 for hard codes and an 18 or 19 for old codes (I may have miss counted). Ran the tests again and got a code 24 for hard codes and then a code 1 1 for old codes. I then tried to take it for a drive and it wouldn't start. Same as yesterday it acted like it had no gas or maybe was flooded. I think I can eliminate the fuel filter as the problem; I think the cam is turning; the rotor is turning; I must be getting spark (at least while it isn't heat soaked). According to my testing manual code 24 is air intake temp or vane air temp sensor out of range. Also my manual says I can't proceed with a key on engine on test until I get the all clear code 11 from key on engine off test. I imagine that when it cools off it will start again. That will be about it for me until this weekend. Appreciate any thoughts,thanks.

Yes, I just went out and it started right up. Must be heat related?

[MikeFleming]

Must be heat related? I would say definitely NOT heat related. NOw if you were here in Southern Arizona in July and it started having issues after 30+ minute of driving, then maybe. But in ten mintes with ambient below 90? Nope, not that.

Take the VAM off and measure the temp sensor. If that's OK, verify the wiring from the VAM connector to the EEC.

[Meotchh]

I would say definitely NOT heat related. NOw if you were here in Southern Arizona in July and it started having issues after 30+ minute of driving, then maybe. But in ten mintes with ambient below 90? Nope, not that.

Take the VAM off and measure the temp sensor. If that's OK, verify the wiring from the VAM connector to the EEC.

Considering there has been some modification from stock with the air filter & VAM, I would definitely check the harness in that area for problems.

[Paulofolympia]

What will I do to measure the temp sensor? I've never done this before. Thanks.

[Paulofolympia]

I will do a visual check of the wiring around the VAM and air cleaner this week and maybe post a picture or two. Would a problem in the VAM temp sensor or wiring cause some of my driveability issues like not starting well when warm and/or variable tach reading at idle; lack of go under boost? I will probably use the code reader again this weekend to try to get more info.Thanks much.

[Paulofolympia]

6103610461056106Hi. Here are some pic.'s of my VAM. I didn't see anything that jumped out at me as a problem but perhaps you can see what I can't. It has been suggested to me that I spray the VAM and temp sensor with mass air sensor cleaner (I have a can); also suggested that I remove the VAM and measure the sensor. To remove the VAM does the large black bracket need to come off first? Then is it the bolts with the rubber isolators? Any tips on do's and don't are appreciated. Also I do not know how to "measure" the temp sensor? My apologies for being an imbecile. Last weekend I started my tune by trying to remove the intercooler with standard sockets. Someone has been raiding Ford of Europe parts bin! As an aside, when posting should I be starting new threads or continue with this current one? Thank you.

[Meotchh]

I see a possible problem, the BCS has no lines going to it. Do you have another means to control boost?

[MikeFleming]

BTW - everything on the engine and gearbox is metric.

Most threads on the chassis are metric also, with a truly random spattering of SAE stuff.

[Chalky]

I see a possible problem, the BCS has no lines going to it. Do you have another means to control boost?

This could also cause a massive vacuum leak if the lines weren't blocked at the turbo!!! You may also want to check that the VAM door is moving freely and isn't stuck open.

[Paulofolympia]

I assume the BCS is the small black cylindrical component w/ 2 holes in it that look as if they should have some hoses attached? I have no control over the amount of boost I am getting; (at least none that I am aware of); I was going to ask about why my boost gauge pegging at 18 psi sometimes? Any recommendations on how to proceed? Thanks.

[Meotchh]

It really seems like you need to do a thorough review of all the damage, I mean modifications the previous owner did.

Yes you need some sort of boost control. The lines that went there, do you know where they were redirected?
Are there any visual signs of cuts or splices in the harness?

[Chalky]

Here's a couple of pics that show the hose routing. They are supposed to be the same length.

[Paulofolympia]

6138Here is a picture of what has been done to the turbo boost control hoses; ever seen anything like this before? Looks hideous! I need 2 new hoses and nobody stocks these. Are these high pressure lines and do you know the dimensions (dia. and appx length) so that I can have a set made up? Do you recommend another alternative? Thanks.

[Meotchh]

Paul,

You need a boost control there. You can buy the vaccum hose from most part stores. There is nothing special about those hoses.
The question to ask is, why did the previous owner do that?
Even bigger question is, what else did the previous owner do?

[Paulofolympia]

Thank you for the help. I will buy new vacuum lines and install them per the pic's in post #24. I also intend to replace the TFI (aka electronic or engine control module) on the side of the distributor in the hopes of solving my warm start difficulties.

The previous owner is no longer with us so I am unable to ask what else may have been messed with. Are these the sort of tamperings that people do to try to make more power? What sorts of things should I look for? There is no aux. boost gauges or other evidence of hot rodding. A receipt for dual glass pack mufflers from Walts. A few wild guess' could be he routed the boost hoses weird because the BCS went bad? or maybe he was in the middle of doing something when he passed and the neighbor fellow just plugged things back in where he could. or he was trying to accomplish something else. I just don't know. I will post additional pic's later this weekend and maybe someone can spot things that need attention that I don't see. Thanks again and I will keep at it as best as I can. If the water gets too deep ( as in over my head ) does anyone recommend a shop in the puget sound area that could help me?

[Meotchh]

Most shops will do more harm than good. There are none in this area I would recommend. The only places I would trust are The Fox Shoppe in Portland, or North West Pony Shop in Snohomish.

If you get in over your head, feel free to PM me. If I have some availability I can try to swing down your way.

[Chalky]

Second the Pony Shoppe!! Can also offer to stop by on my next trip up that way. PM me your number and we can touch base. Posting pics of your engine bay from several angles will allow us to spot any possible obvious issues.

[subpay]

One of the problems I had was with the timing. Car was hard to start and acting like a dog. After changing the timing belt, I pulled the plug...whatever it is called...on the distributor and set the timing at ten. But, later discovered that I had retarded the timing ten degrees vice advancing it ten degrees. That was after I changed the TPS, cleaned the Vam, cleaned the idle control valve, and the knock sensor. I just didn't want to believe that I would screw that up. And, I did.

[brsvo]

Cars barely run with that kind of timing ask me how I know!

[SnakePlisskin]

As others have stated there may be multiple problems. The TFI will quit when it gets heatsoak off the engine. Once it cools the car will run again until it heatsoaks again, then shutdown again. It happens on 5.0L also, very commom problem. Good idea to change it out if it's of unknown age. This is why in 1994, ford relocated the TFI to the inner fender on mustangs and trucks.

[Paulofolympia]

Hi. I617861796180618161826183618461856186 installed a new ignition module on the side of the distributor (tip; it unplugs downward and doesn't pull out like the screws) and it starts and runs. At least I didn't break it. I will wait until I have the lines installed to the boost controller (and it stops raining) before I give it a test drive. It still seems to be hunting rpm's at idle. Regarding the vam; what should I do to examine or determine if the door is operating, etc? Remove the air cleaner and look into it? Is spraying a mass air sensor cleaner into it a bad idea? I had some tell me to be wary of "taking it apart" as I would end up buying a new one? I did get a code reading of vane air temp sensor out of range. Here are some pic's of what my motor looks like. I recognize oil leaks (which I will need professional help to resolve) and the missing boost hoses. Thanks again for the help.
ps; sorry about not using motorcraft tune up parts (feel like a bit of a scrub there).

[MikeFleming]

This could also cause a massive vacuum leak if the lines weren't blocked at the turbo!!! You may also want to check that the VAM door is moving freely and isn't stuck open. A very minor vac leak at best as those holes are pretty small (on the compressor outlet it's like 0.14"). And that area never sees manifold vac or pressure.

The other one on the compressor inlet is larger, maybe 0.20", so it can allow some unmetered air in, but again, not subjected to manifold vacuum so the leak would still be minor.

Bypassing the BCS as is shown in the pic above would merely take the EEC out of the boost control decisions, and mechanically limit boost to approximately 16 PSIG (assuming the fittings sizes have not been changed). A very common mod and certainly nothing dangerous.

[Paulofolympia]

I took a test drive today and experienced the same non-start problem as before. My symptoms are; it runs alright but at idle it hunts and is idling at 1000 rpm, which seems high. It acts like it is stumbling or missing, but not all the time. After a decent drive I parked it and when I came back it would not start. It cooled for half an hour and then started. Drove it home, shut it off, it started right away, and that's where I am at. I bought some hosing and clamps and this weekend I will attach them to the boost controller. I need to isolate whether my non start is ignition or fuel. It sure acts like fuel starving but with my idle issue I don't know. How many fuel pumps do I have? I have changed the filter and I hear a pump coming on when I turn the key. I have a fuel pressure gauge that I borrowed so will try to duplicate my trouble and look for spark and for fuel pressure. To see the VAM door do I go in from the air cleaner side? Thanks.

[MikeFleming]

Measure fuel pressure while you're gathering data.

[Kendal Coker]

I think you need to change the pick up in the distributor when you change the TFI. TFI plugs into it.