I need assistance on an early 84 plug together spout?

[BLK BRD 88]

OK, so hook up the timing light, & then disconnect the two ends of the spout so I can check the timing on my early 84. I fire it up and too much ambient light coming in to see the timing marks. I move the car to the other end of the yard & turn it so I am away from the sun. At this point all is great, the timing is dead on 10º BTDC.
I shut the engine off so I can replug the spout, and other end (not the distributer end) of the connection is gone?
I get a flashlight & there twisted around the the steering rag joint is a small length of yellow wire with no connector at the end & no sight of the plug. Evidently the other end was hanging low enough to get twisted into the steering knuckle & got thrown somewhere that I am unable to find???
I don't even know where the wire comes from that connects the missing plug to the spout. I have searched around in the area, but don't see any broken off wire end in any of the looms or anywhere else in the vicinity.
At this point I have no way to reconnect my spout before driving the car.....I would appreciate any help any of you could offer to try to get this fixed if even just a temporarily until I can try to find another plug & some wire.
Thanks in advance for any helpful replys
Ron

[JTurbo]

Depends on how temporary and/or red-neck....

But a section of wire and some wire nuts will do the trick until you come up with something a bit more appropriate / formal.....

[MikeFleming]

Get a small, flat-blade fuse harness with a fuse in it. Connect the two ends together using hte fuse adapter. Fuse in = SPOUT conencted (advance being ocntrolled by computer) Fuse out = SPOUT OUT (timing set by dizzy only).

One end comes out of the TFI harness pigtail. The other end comes from the TFI harness stub in the EEC harness which is iunder the intake manifold and comes away forom the EEC harness near where the brake PV switch is (under the master cylinder). If you trace back the injector harness firm the intake area to the harness along the shock tower, you'll find the TFI harness coming out of the same harness. BTW - the fuse harness wires will be much larger than needed for the SPOUT signal.

Note that ALL of those wires arer brittle and probbaly have most of hte insulation already fallen off. It's just part of owning an early 80's Ford.

[BLK BRD 88]

Joe,
I do have some wire & scotch nuts, but where would I connect the wire? Since it is yanked out, I can't even find where it goes.


Mike,
I will trace those wires down & see if I can get a fuse connected.
If I remember correctly there were two wires to the other end of the spout connection & I can't find a stub end sticking out for either of them so far.
I am off to do some tracing of wires & harnesses. First I have to look up the various abbreviations.
Thanks guys
Ron

[MikeFleming]

Some pics of a perfect condition 84 style SPOUT (SPark OUTput from EEC to TFI, ignition module on side of dist housing).

The yellow wire, 2nd from bottom side of TFI connector, is the SPOUT wire. The 4-wire round, dark connector near the 22 inch mark goes to the injector harness on the rear side of the intake. The two-wire connector between the TFI and SPOUT connector goes to the knock sensor. Note there is a shielded (silver braided) harness that has the three low-level EEC wires that go between the EEC and the TFI: PIP (profile ignition pickup that sends the RPM and position data to the EEC), IDM (ignition diagnostic monitor - a spare wire to the EEC that sends back the TFI coil trigger data in a low-level signal) and SPOUT (the output from the EEC to the TFI that tells it when to make the spark - and it does that with another wire that's connected to the ignition coil primary - the green wire). The spout wire is inside that braid.

The two-wire grey connector above the 16 inch mark goes to the ignition coil.
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Here you can see the tree-push pin support that should be tied/taped to the EEC harness to keep the SPOUT section from falling into harms way - but the one time you disconnect the SPOUT, it's forever free from then on.
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Note there's WAY too much length there in the SPOUT run and that often gets tangled with the steering linkage. It needs to be shortened or tied out of the way.
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84 style after a couple decades. Note most of the wire insulation is gone on several cables. That's a 6-inch rule, btw, to put the cable length in perspective.
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86 style SPOUT (with broken tabs) . Much more compact, not too long to be hanging down and a good way to make your 84. Many moons ago Forced4 had the 86 style SPOUT pigtails and "pills" to go there. I have MANY BOSCH fuel injector harness pigtails that work perfectly for the SPOUT thingie (but I don't have any "pills" for them) if you're interested in going that route - much smaller wires than the fuse links. Perhaps Eric can chime in if there's a source for replacement pills (I wonder if I have a spare? And where would it be? - small parts are so much harder to find).
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HTH!

[BLK BRD 88]

Well, I spent quite a bit of time searching, but came up with no loose wire ends in the harnesses to tie into.
Here is a couple of pics of the harness area.
http://i1085.photobucket.com/albums/j430/ronelias/1984%20SVO/IMG_8166_zps6963bac7.jpg (http://s1085.photobucket.com/user/ronelias/media/1984%20SVO/IMG_8166_zps6963bac7.jpg.html)

http://i1085.photobucket.com/albums/j430/ronelias/IMG_8163_zpsf5725515.jpg (http://s1085.photobucket.com/user/ronelias/media/IMG_8163_zpsf5725515.jpg.html)

Ron

[BLK BRD 88]

Ok Mike,
Thanks for the great pics & explanation. I checked for replies just before posting the pics & nothing........I post my two pics & there is your post with all of your close-up pictures above it???

Anyway, will the TFI from an 87 Turbo Coupe work on my 84? I have an 87 automatic car that I am snatching parts from, so if it would work that might be an easy fix...I read that it takes a special tool to disconnect the TFI from the distributer.

Could I also just use the part of the Turbo Coupe harness that goes to the TFI....is there a place where it can be disconnected from the main motor harness?
Thanks
Ron

[JTurbo]

Looks like you need to unplug the harness going into the TFI and trace the end that went into the harness.

I borrowed Mike's picture above and labeled it accordingly. Good Luck!
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[Kendal Coker]

Just cut it off the turbo coupe harness about 6 inches up, solder the wires one at a time to the old harness. There is not a plug up stream. I use heat shrink tubing over the soldered wire. I have had to do several of them.

[MikeFleming]

Anyway, will the TFI from an 87 Turbo Coupe work on my 84? I have an 87 automatic car that I am snatching parts from, so if it would work that might be an easy fix...I read that it takes a special tool to disconnect the TFI from the distributer. The early engines used a 5.5mm hex head on the screws that mount the TFI to the dist body. You will need a thin-wall 1/4 drive socket to fit inside the TFI screw hole. After the two screws are removed, the TFI slides straight downwards about 3/8" to disconnect from the PIP. Look at a new (spare) TFI to see how to move it away. Now sometime later the screw heads changed to a TORX type, probably a 10 or 12 - I don't have any handy to measure.

Be sure to apply a copiuos amount of thermal paster - same stuff you use between a CPU and heatsink in your desktop.


Could I also just use the part of the Turbo Coupe harness that goes to the TFI....is there a place where it can be disconnected from the main motor harness? Yes, and as Kendal is quoted above, you can take wire parts from the TC and install them on your SVO harness.


Just cut it off the turbo coupe harness about 6 inches up, solder the wires one at a time to the old harness. There is not a plug up stream. I use heat shrink tubing over the soldered wire. I have had to do several of them. As Kendal notes above you can salvage parts from the TC harness. I would recommend to take at least two feet of the needed wires from the donor harness and splice them into your 84 harness. There will be lots more length of damaged cables in your harness further up the harness that what you can see.

My preference is to install the heatshrink tube first, roll the wires together, in-line, solder, then heat shrink the tubing over the exposed soldered area. You cna also use crimp connectors in-line, just be srue to space them out so the bulge isn't too large. BTW - fitting the shielding over the crimp connectors will take patience - or wrap it with aluminum foil to keep the ignition noise out.

[BLK BRD 88]

Would there be any advantage to taking the whole distributer & TFI with 2' of harness from the TC to solder in (are there any upgrades on the 87 distributer or are they the same)?
That would keep me from having to remove the TFI from the distributor on the SVO with the unusual screws & using thermal paste etc.

Or, would there be any advantage to installing the distributor, the whole harness & EEC from the 87 TC?

If so, how difficult is that & would I have to change the injectors also. I have read that the various EECs that were used on the 87/88 TCs were more advanced than the EECs on the early SVOs.

Thanks to each of you who have posted your helpful comments & suggestions with diagrams your help is invaluable. I feel so lost when it comes to these 80s cars with simple computers, can't imagine what it is like to work on newer cars. The last cars that I much work on were mid seventies models thirty years ago.
Ron

[BLK BRD 88]

Ok, I found the elusive yellow wire thanks to all of the pics and pointers from you guys. It was still long enough to twist onto a stripped section of the spout wire which I wrapped with electricians tape as a temporary fix-it.
Is there any reason that this won't work until I decide which way to go as a permanent repair?
Ron

[MikeFleming]

Ok, I found the elusive yellow wire thanks to all of the pics and pointers from you guys. It was still long enough to twist onto a stripped section of the spout wire which I wrapped with electricians tape as a temporary fix-it.
Is there any reason that this won't work until I decide which way to go as a permanent repair?
Ron Depends on your particular definition of "temporary fix". Probably good for a few days at least.

If it comes open (where the wires are not sufficiently touching each other) the engine will IMMEDIATELY lose power - lots of power. And then it is time to fix it again or tow it as, under load, the EGT values will increase by 500+ degrees F.

[rodster]

Great information. :like2:

Something else I need to look into on my 84.