Tranny / clutch problem??

[Tonys 85.5]

A very weird thing happened today. I was driving and the car was acting fine, I stopped for gas got back in and it would not move in 1st gear. It was hard to get into 1st and it would just rev and pop the shifter out of gear? I had to use 2nd to pull out and it seemed to go through 2-5 fine and reverse is also fine. This is a 85.5 with 53,xxx miles. Any thoughts
Thanks Tony

[svono50]

Interesting issue, generally due to the clutch not completely disengaging due to either a sticking throwout bearing or mis-adjusted clutch cable (i.e.- stretched, but not self-adjusted). If the self-adjusting quadrant is still properly functional, try pulling back on the clutch pedal with the top of your foot to see if the quadrant will re-tension the clutch cable to take out any slack, Since 1st isn't synchronized, but 2nd is, that could be the reason you could engage 2nd from a stop. Did you try down shifting into 1st from 2nd while you were still moving? If it could be put in 1st, did it stay engaged or pop out? Wonder if it could be a worn damper sleeve (i.e.- shifter cup) not moving the internal shifter forks fully into position?

[MikeFleming]

Since 1st isn't synchronized, but 2nd is, that could be the reason you could engage 2nd from a stop. All forward gears in the T5 box have blocker/synchronizer rings; all gears except reverse.

Of course the first gear blocker ring/gear/synchronizer could have excessive wear but most likely it's a clutch drag issue. If it shifts fine without the engine running, and poorly with the engine running and car stopped with clutch depressed, then there is some (aka too much) clutch drag. It's just hard to get into first or it grinds?

Leaving aside any possible issues with the console/boot/carpet/etc. fouling the shifter mechanism: If it's OK with car stopped, engine running, clutch depressed but no so good with car moving, clutch depressed, replacing the gearbox oil is the next recommended step.

And remember the shift forks in the T5 are aluminum (with plastic replaceable contact pads) and they do not bend much.

[Tonys 85.5]

Thanks guys. it acts the same with the car running as well as not running, it does not want to go into 1st gear either way. when not running 2-5 feel a little "tight" but when I was getting it home 2-5 seemed ok??
Should i still try changing the gear box oil and it requires automatic transmission fluid correct?

Thanks Tony

[svono50]

Mike, thanx for the correction, I was thinking about some other tranny when I typed that...DOH!

With the engine not running, can you get it into 1st after getting it into 2nd or is it still not getting it in?? I know that I have to sometimes pull mine into 2nd prior to 1st to get the gears to align just right prior to moving from a parked position.

As for fluid, yes, ATF Dextron III or equivalent is recommended, no gear oil for our T5's. I have been using Mobil 1 ATF for many moons and have been very happy with how mine runs, now with just over 112K miles it still shifts smoothly.

[Tonys 85.5]

I changed the fluid last evening. Acted the same for me. I get home from work today and my son said he had it out and it acted fine for him?? I'm gonna take it for a spin later and I'll let you guys know how it goes.
Thanks agin for the responses. Tony

[Tonys 85.5]

Well it finally wasn't raining, so i took the car out and something is still up with 1st gear. I am taking it to a transmission shop tonight to let them give me their opinion. Clutch or internal??? hopefully will find out.

[scenario]

And remember the shift forks in the T5 are aluminum (with plastic replaceable contact pads) and they do not bend much.


I had this problem many years ago with a T5 from an 84GT. We thought it was a synchro but when we opened it up the plastic contact pad was all chewed up. Although the gear shifter would be in first gear the actual shift fork was not "pushing" the syncronizer all the way into gear. Once we replaced the plastic contact pad the problem was solved.

If you get to see the unit apart and this is the case it will make perfect sense if you can not visualize what is potentially going on here.

In my case when it was popping out of gear it made a very loud boom kind of echoing noise. It is possible that your contact pad has completely come off or disintegrated which would really not allow much engagement and therefore just pop out.

Hard to explain but if you see it, it makes sense.

[Tonys 85.5]

Transmission shop said the clutch is not fully releasing causing the issue. we removed the rubber boot on the side and we could see the clutch plate is worn on the pressure plate side much more than the flywheel side.. i will be replacing the clutch, bearing and pressure plate. he talked of some plastic pcs that while its out he is also going to replace. i would think that these are what you guys have been talking about ( contact pads). i will find out for sure before the work is done and let you all know.


Thanks for all the help.

[JTurbo]

Is your dog-bone cable OK? (ie not stretched and ready to snap)

Could be an inexpensive fix (or real hassle if it breaks while out and about)....

[svono50]

Might as well check everything. If your bearing retainer snout (aluminum tube) is worn/gouged, you should replace it with a steel unit. They are only ~$50 and will help ensure your throwout bearing moves smoothly and doesn't overstress the dog-bone cable...ask me how I know.

As for the shifter fork pads, here is a pic that should help visualize them. You can see 2 of the 4 in the pic, they are the milky white pads the arrows are attempting to point at. Sorry for the 90's digital photo quality.

7265

[Tonys 85.5]

Thanks for the picture. Well i received the quote on the work to be done. clutch, pressure plate, throw out bearing,and the plastic pcs he was talking about are the two adjuster gears. one at the pedal and one at the gear box. parts around $250 and $450 labor... i think that's pretty expensive labor. My buddy has a rack so im gonna do it myself. I did Both of my 86 GT's back in the day.
any recommendations on types/brands of clutch kits?? i don't want a super hard pedal... And does anyone have P/N's for the the dog bone cable and the shifter fork pads. And lastly is it difficult to get to and change these pads?

Thanks

[MikeFleming]

The plastic shift fork pads are part of the small parts kit for the gearbox, usually not sold separately. Try Hanlon Motorsports to see if they sell them separate.

To change the pads the gearbox top cover has to come off. That requjires removing the shift mechanism, the thingie on the shift inpout rod, then the tail housing and then the top cover. And putting it all back together. There are no gaskets - only sealant.

[Tonys 85.5]

7266not sure how this picture will come out but i found the gear box transmissions inc. sell bronze pads 26.50 for two. Hanlon only sells kits.

[MikeFleming]

That's kinda pricey and I don't know if brass is better than plastic in this application. You need 6 total, since there are three shift forks that use them. Additionally you really should replace the roll pins(come in the small parts kit) that are taken out when the tailhousing assy is removed. Without bearings I wouldn't expect the SMK to be more than $60 (should contain all the small parts such as the fork pads, roll pins, snap rings, washers, spacers, that are normally replaced in a gearbox overhaul - except the synchro rings and bearings).

I may have some spares around somewhere - will need to search though. I know I've got a box of roll pins [somewhere].

I will look over the weekend.

[MikeFleming]

I have an almost complete M-7000-A (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/fms-m-7000-a) kit available. It is only missing the countershaft bearings from the complete kit and otherwise has all the small parts, synchro rings, snap rings, bearings, spacers, seals, plugs, springs, roll pins, fork plastic bumbers, etc.

Everything needed for a complete T5 WC overhaul except the countershaft bearings.

[Tonys 85.5]

Thanks Mike
What are looking to get for the remainder of the kit or just the pads and pins?

[Tonys 85.5]

well I am still working on getting this clutch replaced i have ordered a SPEC stage 2 kit, new dog bone cable just in case i need it. I am having a very difficult time locating a steel throw out bearing retainer... I have searched the forum repeatedly and cant seem to find a P/N for it and I have also called 5 different mustang suppliers with no luck.
does anyone have a P/N or vendor name where I could purchase one. I would greatly appreciate the help. we want to get her back on the road before the snow fly's.

Tony

[MikeFleming]

Available everywhere: Ford Racing M-7050-A, about $60/US. Same for all WC T5 models.

[Tonys 85.5]

Thanks Mike,
When I called around everyone told me that this would not work in the SVO.

[svono50]

Then you were speaking to some uninformed folks, unfortunately. The input shaft is different on our 4-cyl tranny, but the bearing retainer is the same as Mike stated. I am running the Spec stage II, you should like it as compared to a stock unit. It has a similar weight to the pedal and take up is nice an smooth. The steel bearing retainer will make the pedal feel very light compared to the aluminum snout, especially if it had some wear. Good luck.

[MikeFleming]

Thanks Mike,
When I called around everyone told me that this would not work in the SVO. Partly true. The pre-WC box that came in the SVO, 1984-1985, will not work with the steel thingie. The WC SVO box does work with it - and it is the only 4-cylinder T5 that does. Mid-1985, all 1985.5 and all 86 SVOs came with this WC T5 box (3.51 First gear).

Confused a wee bit perhaps? Hence all the confusion amongst all the folks that have never actually seen a real SVO. We went through the same confusion over the Ford Motorsports aluminum driveshaft - most folks still think it won't fit the SVO (where ALL FOX Mustangs with a T5 are all same).

[Tonys 85.5]

I would like to thank everyone in this thread for all of your help. I got the clutch switched out yesterday. SPEC stage 2 kit, new throw out bearing retainer, pilot bearing, and flywheel. took about 4hrs clean up included.
*****The issue seems to have been 2 of the 4 springs on the clutch disc were loose.***** The disc was wearing around the outside only and not fully releasing. while I had the exhaust off I knocked the packing out of the converter, What a Hugh difference that made. you can really hear the turbo spool, sounds awesome.

Thanks again
Tony

[svono50]

Great to hear your new install went well and things are running again!

[MikeFleming]

Party On, Wayne!

... while I had the exhaust off I knocked the packing out of the converter, What a Hugh difference that made. you can really hear the turbo spool, sounds awesome. It's now much lighter too!

[Under Pressure]

You pull up on another driver to your right and pull a little boost & let off. The whine from the turbo spooling up sounds like a siren. They love it.