Rebuild/upgrade my 85 SVO front suspension, have spindle brake & LCA ?

[phils85svo]

Hello all. After much searching on this topic, I wanted to run this setup by everyone to see what you think. Because the SVO LCA's have not been available for years, here is what I was thinking about doing:

1. Lower Control Arms from 94-95 SN95, complete with bushings and ball joint
2. Spindles from 94-95 Cobra (may be same as GT, V6, not sure)
3. 13" brake rotors from 94-95 Cobra
4. Dual piston PBR calipers

From what I have read, this will raise the front end of the car about an inch due to the length of the SVO springs being longer than the SN95's, so instead of cutting the factory springs, I am going to go with the Ford Motorsport "B" springs. I am also aware that the 94-95 LCA's will have to be drilled in the correct location to accept the SVO sway bar end links.

Beyond this, I can see possibly having to change to different brake hoses possibly.

I may also have to purchase Caster / Camber Plates, and am not sure what year struts to use up front with the above mentioned suspension. Can someone help me with this? Is this setup achievable on the SVO's?

Thanks all.
I appreciate it.

[MikeFleming]

Iirc, you will need to use FOX struts with the sn95 spindles and CC plates to get camber right.

[phils85svo]

Here is a question. I have really wanted to go with the 99-04 PBR dual piston calipers for my SVO. For this to happen, could this combination work (keep in mind this is a daily driver, will never be raced):

1. 94-95 SN95 LCA's
2. Spindles from a 99-04 GT, V6
3. PBR Dual Piston calipers/brackets
4. 99-04 GT rotors

Or, can the PBR's be made to fit on the 94-95 spindles?

Thanks in advance.

[MikeFleming]

I have 96 SN95 spindles and 13" EradiSpeed+ rotors with the Cobra dual-piston PBR calipers on my red car. Afaik the hubs/rotors are the same from 1994-2004 - according to rockauto, same part numbers for the hub.

I also had to change the MC to a smaller bore to get the pedal feel right. I went with a 94 Cobra unit that has a 15/16" bore versus the SVO 1.25" bore (using stock SVO rear calipers). Details and pics are in my "Phase..." build threads.

I am not running stock SVO wheels - you will need to verify fitment and hubcentricness with the sn95 rotors.

[phils85svo]

Thanks for that input Mike!

I am going to be running 17" 98 GT factory 5-spoke wheels on mine. Here is another thought...I also have an 06 Legend Lime GT, and recently upgraded the brakes from the factory 12" to 13" 2011 up setup. I wonder if any of that hardware will for on the 94 spindles? I have everything from the caliper brackets, dual piston TRW calipers, 12" rotors, etc. I guess I will have to mess with it and see. I will let everyone know what I find out.

Thanks again!

[MikeFleming]

Good question. I don't have any spare 05+ Stang front brake parts to test fit with.

Looks like you're the tester!

[phils85svo]

That I am glad to be!! I will take pics if it seems possible. Luckily, everything I have is off the car!

[phils85svo]

Ok, maybe this should be moved to the Brakes section, but here is what I have purchased and will be installing soon are the following:

1. 1994-95 Front LCA's
2. 1994-95 Spindles
3. 2003-04 Mustang Cobra PBR dual-piston (metal piston) PBR front brake calipers with adapter brackets for 13" Cobra, Bullitt
4. 2003-04 Mustang Cobra PowerStop 13" cross-drilled / slotted brake rotors (ceramic pads TBD)

What I have left to buy:

1. New front brake hoses to work with PBR calipers
2. Ceramic pads, the brand I have not picked yet
3. I will likely have to buy new ball joints, opinions on which ones?
4. Motorsport 'B' springs
5. caster/camber plates
6. which struts? Fox or SN95?

For wheels, I have 1998 GT 17" wheel, like those in the attached pics (this is a pic I found on the interweb :-)!

7300

I will be modifying the 92 MK VII LSC rear end to let the rear wheel fit under the rear wheel arches without rubbing by moving the caliper adapter plate on the rear axle inboard of the end of the axle housing and using SN95 axles. Keeps SVO rear calipers and track width.

Anyone want to comment or give me some opinions / direction?

Thanks,

Phil

[FoxBuddy]

Ok, maybe this should be moved to the Brakes section, but here is what I have purchased and will be installing soon are the following:

1. 1994-95 Front LCA's
2. 1994-95 Spindles
3. 2003-04 Mustang Cobra PBR dual-piston (metal piston) PBR front brake calipers with adapter brackets for 13" Cobra, Bullitt
4. 2003-04 Mustang Cobra PowerStop 13" cross-drilled / slotted brake rotors (ceramic pads TBD)

What I have left to buy:

1. New front brake hoses to work with PBR calipers
2. Ceramic pads, the brand I have not picked yet
3. I will likely have to buy new ball joints, opinions on which ones?
4. Motorsport 'B' springs
5. caster/camber plates
6. which struts? Fox or SN95?

Anyone want to comment or give me some opinions / direction?

My opinions:
1. Maximum Motorsports offers the brake hoses for adapting the fox hard line to the banjo fitting on the front callipers.
2. No opinion.
3. I like the Moog replacements.
4. Are these lowering springs?
5. If lowering more than 1", these seems to be recommended for proper alignment.
6. I would use the 87-93 struts, not the 94-03 ones for the front at least. I believe the length (travel?) is shorter on the SN95 (although I can't comment with the use of the SN95 control arms).

Good luck!

[phils85svo]

Hey Foxbuddy, I appreciate your input.

As for the springs, yes, the Motorsport "B" springs (M-5300-B), 1979-1993 Estimated Drop: Front 7/8"; Rear 1/2"

I guess that the ball joints I am going to use are the 1994-95?

[FoxBuddy]

I unfortunately used 87-93 ball joints and ended up having to use a spacer between the spindle and the castle nut on my 82 when I upgraded.
http://www.fme-cat.com/overlays/part-detail.aspx?brand=MC&PartNumber=K8259&pt=Ball Joint&lu=1988 FORD MUSTANG&vin=

Here is the 94+ ball joint that I found:
http://www.fme-cat.com/overlays/part-detail.aspx?brand=MC&PartNumber=K8749&pt=Ball Joint&lu=1994 FORD MUSTANG&vin=

I was surprised to see Moog offers complete 94+ control arms with bushings and ball joints also complete!
http://www.fme-cat.com/overlays/part-detail.aspx?brand=MC&PartNumber=RK620900&pt=Control Arm and Ball Joint Assembly&lu=1994 FORD MUSTANG&vin=

[Jack Hidley]

With the changes to the front brake system, you are increasing the rear brake bias by 28%. You are going to need to disable the stock proportioning valve and install an adjustable unit.

Ceramic brake pads are designed for low dust. To get this performance, they also have low friction. The changes to the front brakes are going to require a 28% increase in pedal force. Installing ceramic pads will require an additional increase in pedal force. You will either need a brake booster with more assist or install a smaller diameter m/c to compensate. The m/c should probably be a 1" model.

Fox struts have a shorter compressed length than SN95 struts. Installation of c/c plates will give the car about a 1" increase in bump travel. This will regain all of the lost bump travel from the lowering springs. I would use Fox length struts.

Make sure that you get 1999-2004 Cobra/Mach1/Bullitt calipers, NOT 1994-1998 Cobra calipers.

Ball joints from 1994-2004 are all the same essentially. The newest version of the ball joints replace the older version of the ball joint. They are all mechanically interchangeable. Install the ball joints with bearing and sleeve retainer. Do not weld them.

[phils85svo]

Jack,

Thanks for the clarity. My parts just came today. I purchased the calipers (metal pistons) with brackets and Powerstop 13" slotted and drilled front rotors, all for the 1999 to 2004 Cobra. I have to replace the ball joints in the 94-95 control arms I bought, so it sounds like I should go with the later, say, 2003 ball joints, correct? Also, what is the purpose of the use of the bearing and sleeve retainer?

One more question for the bunches, about front brake lines to the new calipers. Which ones do I use? I am pretty sure my 85 SVO ones won't work, plus, they need to be replaced anyway. Suggestions on those? I saw adapters on the MM site, but they were for the back brakes.

Oh, almost forgot, someone mentioned above about using a 94 Cobra brake master cylinder as it has a smaller bore than that of the SVO, to help with the assist required for the new setup.

Did I miss anything?

Thanks all!

[Jack Hidley]

The hoses at the link below will work for the front calipers.

http://www.maximummotorsports.com/MM-Stainless-Brake-Hose-Kit-1979-93-Mustang-with-SN95-calipers-front-P1341.aspx

Once a ball joint has been installed into the FCA, the flared hole opens up a little bit. When a new ball joint is installed, it may not be tight in the FCA hole. The bearing and sleeve retainer is to lock it in place. Many people weld the ball joint into the FCA, which is a big mistake.

I think the 1" 1993 Mustang Cobra m/c will be a slightly better match than the 15/16" 1994 Mustang Cobra unit.

[MikeFleming]

Here's what I used for front hose connections to the calipers. Note these pics are from April, 2006.

I had already changed the hard line adapters to -3 AN so I can cap them when desired.

7309
7311
7312
7313
7314
7315

[phils85svo]

The hoses at the link below will work for the front calipers.

http://www.maximummotorsports.com/MM-Stainless-Brake-Hose-Kit-1979-93-Mustang-with-SN95-calipers-front-P1341.aspx

Once a ball joint has been installed into the FCA, the flared hole opens up a little bit. When a new ball joint is installed, it may not be tight in the FCA hole. The bearing and sleeve retainer is to lock it in place. Many people weld the ball joint into the FCA, which is a big mistake.

I think the 1" 1993 Mustang Cobra m/c will be a slightly better match than the 15/16" 1994 Mustang Cobra unit.

Jack,

Regarding the 1993 Cobra m/c, are there any mods that need to be done to the SVO booster to make it work? What about the hard lines going to the m/c? What do I do about those?

Thanks.

[phils85svo]

The hoses at the link below will work for the front calipers.

http://www.maximummotorsports.com/MM-Stainless-Brake-Hose-Kit-1979-93-Mustang-with-SN95-calipers-front-P1341.aspx

"Once a ball joint has been installed into the FCA, the flared hole opens up a little bit. When a new ball joint is installed, it may not be tight in the FCA hole. The bearing and sleeve retainer is to lock it in place. Many people weld the ball joint into the FCA, which is a big mistake."

Jack, Do you have a part number for this bearing and sleeve retainer? Or a link to where I can find it?

Thanks,
Phil

[MikeFleming]

You will need to machine down the rear snout on the Cobra MC to fit into the SVO booster can (see my Phase 2: Mods thread for pics). Alternatey you will ned to use a differnt bosoter - adn ther are associated fitment issues.

The later MCs use Metric bubble flare tube ends and metric tube nuts while the SVO uses SAE double-flare tube ends with SAE threaded tube nuts. if you're handy with a SAE tube bending and flaring kit, you can make your own from off-the-shelf Metric tubes.

I had a set made in 304 by Classic Tube. They should still have the patterns and sizes.

[Jack Hidley]

To fit the 1993 Mustang Cobra m/c into your SVO brake booster, the pilot diameter of the m/c will need to be turned down on a lathe from 1.58" to 1.47". To do this, the snap ring from the end of the m/c needs to be removed, then the piston assemblies need to be pulled out of the housing. Be careful, they are spring loaded and will shoot out once the snap ring is removed. The internal jaws of a three jaw chuck can then go inside the m/c bore to mount it on the lathe. Stuff the bore of the m/c with paper towels to keep chips out. Afterwards make sure to clean out the bore completely.

To install the m/c on your car, you will need an MMBAK-17 kit. Before installing this kit, you will need to install a Weatherhead 7828 fitting into the top proportioning valve hole that is nearest the firewall.

We now have the Ford ball joints available on the MM website.

http://www.maximummotorsports.com/Ford-OEM-Low-Friction-ball-Joint-1979-2004-Mustang-P1465.aspx

If you go to an autoparts store, look over the area with chemicals in a tube. Look for a product designed to install bearings or sleeves. Some people call this green Loctite. That is what I would install the ball joints with.

[phils85svo]

Just out of morbid curiosity, what if I wanted to go with a later model brake booster, say one from a 93 Cobra? What is involved there?

[Jack Hidley]

If you install a 1993 Mustang Cobra booster, the m/c will bolt directly to it, but you will need to shorten some of the studs on the booster, and even then you may need to hammer on the rear corner of the strut tower to get the booster in.

If you use a 1986-93 152mm dual diaphragm booster, it will bolt right in without changes to anything.

[phils85svo]

Thanks jack for that info. If I go the route of the 1986-93 booster, will the 93 Cobra MC fit without any machine work to it?

[svono50]

<snip>
If you go to an autoparts store, look over the area with chemicals in a tube. Look for a product designed to install bearings or sleeves. Some people call this green Loctite. That is what I would install the ball joints with.

Loctite calls that type of product a 'retaining compound', so examples are 603, 609, 648 & 675. They are intended for holding smooth bore parts to shafts/rods, just like a ball joint into an a-arm pocket. I have used 648 at work on a particular threaded application due to surface contamination we had to live with, stuff was wicked strong, but you could still disassemble the parts w/o destroying them.

[Jack Hidley]

Phil,

Yes.

[MikeFleming]

I have used 648 at work on a particular threaded application due to surface contamination we had to live with, stuff was wicked strong, but you could still disassemble the parts w/o destroying them. Used to use that stuff on the stub axles and hubs on the Europa. "Wicked strong" tranlates to about 5000 PSI tensile. Heat it to 450 F and it turns into something closer to thick cake icing (dark green crystal-like shapes) , about 400 PSI in sterngth - makes removal easier.

[phils85svo]

Jack,

So which was should I go, 86-93 GT or 93 Cobra Booster?