Stock vs lowered

[brsvo]

I have been debating going from my H&R sport springs back to stock. I don't find the time or money to do open track (tire wear)and don't want to spend the whole day to get 2 or 3 laps at an autocross event. I love the stance of my car but the bumps are not getting smoother and I am not getting any younger either. I also think the stock springs may be easier on my 28 year old car body. Opinions?

[Laredo]

I'd say stick with the H&Rs. I think they ride just as smooth as the stock springs.

[brsvo]

I can't say they are much stiffer but they seem to bottom out a lot more than the stock stuff. Maybe when I take the struts and shocks out I might find one shot or something that I am not realizing now.

[NY eric]

I have motorsport "C" springs on now. And.... speed bumps are a PITA. if you are a daily driver.... go B or stock. if it is an occasional driver and you have the ability to avoid issues.. go low.

[JTurbo]

Stock springs in my black '86. Car rides awesome for what it is used for, daily driver....

[BLK BRD 88]

When I look at the poll, so far, I wonder………………….
Am I the only one on this forum that likes the stock stance on SVOs?
Ron

[Chuck]

When I look at the poll, so far, I wonder………………….
Am I the only one on this forum that likes the stock stance on SVOs?
Ron

I like the stock stance as well. I'm original on springs.

[Raven855]

I'm with Doug on this one. I think it rides better than the stock springs. The stock springs are 410# vs the 490-575 progressive spring of the H&R sport spring. The front drop is 1.6". The rear is 200# vs the 250-285# with a 1.5" drop. Not alot of difference especially at the back. The H&R are well suited to the Koni shocks and struts too. If you are have some ride issues it might be time to check the shocks and structs out.

[brsvo]

Raven you have H&R's and red Koni's? I may have a bad strut or shock. Do you have CC plates? How about bump stops on your struts?

[svono50]

Those published drops are up for question when applied to our SVO's from my experience. I am running Eibach Pro's and the published drops are 1.2/1.0 (F/R) and my results were .875/.625 (F/R), so I have a feeling you could apply a similar ratio to most V8 based spring drops, but don't bet a paycheck on it. I know one fellow SVO owner who put Eibach Sportlines on his and he ended up with the exact same ride height as mine with the Pro's, while the Sportlines have an advertised drop of 1.7/1.5 (F/R). Best way to compare ride height between vehicles is to measure from the fender lip to the wheel center, so you eliminate the tire height difference between vehicles.

With that said, if you are bottoming out on a regular basis (ignore your trip through my neck of the interstate woods) then your shocks/struts are either set too soft or have given up the ghost. Hopefully you are not bottoming out on the bump stops, as that can cause some real 'exciting' reactions by your car in the corners. Only time I have to worry about scraping something is when I come across a bad set of RR tracks or speed bumps, which are luckily not too common in the areas I drive around here.

[brsvo]

When I talked to you the other night Ted, you said you had spring rates for your Eibachs. How do they compare to stock again? The struts seem to hit bottom not the car. I had that problem but raised the exhaust last year. I just got it up in the air last night and will get to investigating in the near future.

[Raven855]

On the red car I have H&R Sports and the stock Konis. It currently has some non M&M CC plates. This will be moved over to the Grey car and the plates will be replaced when I do. I have a M&M K Member and suspension stuff going on.

This is what I got from Eibach on their Kits awhile back.
Kit Front Rear Drop F/R
Eibach Prokit 425-530 200-300 1.50 1.50 inch
Eibach ProKit Convertible 460-570 170-310 1.5 1.5
Eibach ProKit Coupe 460-570 200-250 1.50 1.50
Eibach Racekit 700-850 200-260
Eibach Sportline 425-630 140-295 2.00 2.00

[Raven855]

Bruce text me your email and I can send you a document with spring rates and some rack infomation in it. I have never bothered to convert it to html and it does not post well here...

[brsvo]

Got it all apart tonight. Found the PS strut has no compression dampening but has rebound. DS has both.
What a pain it was to get the control arms out even after the bolts were out. The front bolts wouldn't clear the rack and I loosened the rack. Even with the bolts out the serrated bushing was well embedded in the K member. The ball joints feel tight and the bushings are not cracked. I am going to do the delalum bushings but leave the BJ alone other than cleaning and replacing boots and grease.

[svono50]

Bruce, sounds like the PS strut is toast in need of a rebuild...likely the cause of your bottoming out issue. Yes, the bolts can be a pain to get out since the heads won't clear the rack without unbolting the rack and moving. If your ball joints are still solid, I too would leave them alone and just pack with grease and put on a poly boot.

As for Eibach spring rates, I ended up chatting with their tech line back in 2011 before I pulled the trigger on what kit to buy. Turns out their internal Engineering spec sheets don't match the published info...go figure! Here is what I got from them, which is a bit different than Tony's info above:


Kit Name / Kit # / Front Rate / Rear Rate / Advertised Drop (F/R) / Actual SVO Drop (F/R) / Application

Pro Kit / 3518.140 / 397-628 / 143-206 / 1.2/1.0 / unknown / 4/6 cyl models
Pro Kit / 3514.140 / 457-571 / 171-314 / 1.2/1.0 / unknown / V8 convertible
Pro Kit / 3510.140 / 457-571 / 200-251 / 1.2/1.0 / 0.875/0.625" / V8 coupe <-- My own SVO.
Sportline / 4.1035 / 550 / 251 / 1.7/1.5 / 0.875/1.625" / V8 coupe <-- Someone else's SVO.


I did not ask about the Race kit, so nothing to note there. The 'big' surprise was that the Sportline's are a linear spring and not progressive. The other SVO owner that was running the Sportline's stated that the measurement from the center of the hub to the fender lip was exactly the same front/rear after his install, which is why the rear drop was much more drastic than my results. Not sure what rear arms he was running, but I have poly units front/rear, so I don't have to worry about 'clocking' my bushings when tightening everything back down. With rubber bushings you could clock them incorrectly and effect the final ride height. As you can see, the SVO drops using the Eibach units is a bit different than advertised. The tech line guy also stated that they have seen some results that swing pretty far and wide on actual drops from customers with the same/similar cars, so YMMV.

[MikeFleming]

Even with the bolts out the serrated bushing was well embedded in the K member. Use a 3Lb sledge hammer and bend the a-arm mounting ears slightly to allow some clearance. Only need to move them ~0.030". This will also help greatly when re-installing the a-arm & bolts on assembly.

[Raven855]

Ted I recieved my info from Eibach before 2011 also, probably 09. Wonder what's really right.

The 3# sledge works well for creating more room. For the really stubborn ones pick up a spreader from your local parts store. They will usually lend the nice one out with a deposit.

[svono50]

Ted I recieved my info from Eibach before 2011 also, probably 09. Wonder what's really right. <snip>

Yeah, I am sure it depends on who you talk to and what info they pull. I know your numbers match the advertised numbers, while mine are different. I spent a good 30 minutes on the phone with the tech guy and he ended up digging into some internal engineering documentation when I challenged the advertised numbers he first quoted to me. Because of that, I have given a bit more credence to the numbers I ended up getting over the catalog values, FWIW. Only way to be 100% certain would be to have a set measured, which I never had a chance to do before installing due to time constraints. I ended up receiving them, installing and headed down to the 2011 Reunion within a 24hr time period...no time to do anything other than install and go.

I have been very happy with my Pro kit, but may end up changing at some point if I can't stop lifting my inside/rear tire. For now I will tackle that with sway bar swapping and may move onto adjusting my Watts.

[brsvo]

At what point do you say the ball joints are in need of replacement. I can't feel any play by hand (they are pretty tight to move) and the wear indicators are .060 above the bottom of the joint.

[MikeFleming]

Iirc the factory manual reads that as long as the wear indicator tip is exposed, you're good to go. But it's been a few years (decades?) since i read that section.

[Jack Hidley]

As an FYI to the Eibach spring rates quoted above in this thread. The low spring rate is at full suspension droop. The high spring rate is at ride height. In terms of comparing these numbers to a linear rate spring, you should ignore the low number. In terms of comparing them to an MM spring for instance, ignore the low number also, since we quote the rates at ride height and 2" of bump.