New Engine startup process and tips needed

[ChrisCurtin]

Hi,

I'm finally ready to start her! Since the car didn't come with an engine, transmission, computer, wiring, etc. I've pieced together everything over the last 6 years. So I need advice on how to go through everything to make sure it starts and when she does that it is running correctly.

So, can you guys take a look at what I've found so far and comment/add/answer my questions?

I'm assuming since I have parts from many cars that nothing was 'running okay' when it was taken off.

pre-start
- set cam and crank timing using 'string method' - done
- add oil :)
- prime engine via distributor hole
- move crank to 10 BTDC and point distributor rotor at #1 wire - will do after priming engine
- set TPS to 0.95 or so
- clean IAC - done

Set timing
- disable the fuel pump relay
- pull spout, set timing to 10 BTDC while cranking

First start
- add gas :)
- prime fuel system, turn key to 'on' position then off 2 - 3 times (listen for pumps to prime)
- try to start

If it starts
- adjust idle using screw on throttle body. Question: IAC plugged in or not?
- check TPS voltage again

If won't start
- what are common things to look at first?

First break in
- idle at 2000 rpm for a few minutes (it is a Bo 2.1 roller cam. but don't I still need to do this?)
- drive it at various speeds/rpms to seat the rings

This part has me nervous. Since she was such a basket case I am concerned that I'll have other, non-motor issues to deal with that you can only find once running. Clutch adjustments, brakes, steering etc. If something prevents me from driving it for a while how big of a risk am I at to not seat the rings correctly? Is seating the rings something to do in the first 'x' minutes/hours after it starts or can be done over a short time as I fix things?

Thanks,

Chris

[MikeFleming]

First read:

Do not idle when first started. Immediately get/set between 2000 and 2500 RPM for first ten minutes. We need to pump that engine oil all around. After those first ten minutes, you can go for an idle speed. If you have any leaks (coolant/oil/etc.) switch it off, and fix the leaks.

Will review/comment more later.

[SchoolBoy]

Correct me if im wrong but you should be able to push the gas pedal to the floor before cranking the motor. Hold it down while you crank the motor over a few times. This shuts the injectors off and allows you to prime the motor and the turbo before lighting it off.

[MikeFleming]

Yes, WOT will stop / prevent fuel from spraying as long as engine RPM is less than 400 when crank mode is engaged.

Alternately just unplug the TFI 6-wire connector at the distributor. This stops all PIP signals form getting to the EEC thus no spark, no fuel.

[ChrisCurtin]

Hi,

Getting closer (maybe next weekend?) (Yes I've said that a lot lately ...)

Anything else I've missed?

Thanks,

Chris

[MikeFleming]

Have everything pre-set close enough to where the engine will start (battery charger, fresh petrol, fuel pressure already set, ignition timing close enough to start, etc.). The idea here is to reduce cranking to an absolute minimum.

Have fuel pressure already set. Have timing light already connected. Have battery charger connected (and shut off/disconnect as soon as the alternator is charging).

Cranking to move oil around may be good for bearings but it's the worst case condition for a new cam/rockers. Low speed / low oil flow / heavy load is the worst case condition. Load decreases with more speed. So get it started, prop the throttle open to hold 2000-2500 RPM, THEN set ignition timing to final value (30 degrees BTDC with SPOUT IN is close enough). Readjust the RPM setting as needed as moving the timing will change it some.

If needed have an operator inside to manage the RPM.

Keep it running at 2-2.5K RPM for ten minutes MINIMUM. Any minor issues can wait - do not shut it off after 3 minutes planning to get the other seven minutes later on. Unless it has dumped all its oil or put a rod through the block, leave it running. Ten continuous minutes at 2000-2500 RPM. Minimum.

BTW - in my experience once they put a rod through the block they have a tendency to stop all on their own.

[ChrisCurtin]

Thanks Mike.

Hopefully no thrown rods.

[ChrisCurtin]

Well, tried to fire her yesterday and no luck.

Fuel pressure was 42 psi when cranking, but dropped off immediately after stopping, that means I need a new regulator right?

After a few tries (10 second max) it backfired (and scared the heck out of my wife who was in the car and daughter who was filming :) - this means I had spark right?

I pulled the plugs and all 4 were a little wet and smelled like gas - this means the injectors are firing right?

No fuel smell after 5 minutes or so of sitting, so no leaks (24+ hours later in the garage still no gas smell)

I did a couple of quick checks but nothing seemed obvious. I had a mark on the cam sprocket and belt when I set the timing, but when I tried to check the marks it was off by several teeth, so I guess I need to retime it. (New Esslinger tensioner already)

It may be a couple of weeks before I can try again. Other ideas of what to look at? (Yes I'll be searching for 'no start' threads as well this week.)

Thanks,

Chris

[Under Pressure]

Sounds like the timing is off at the distributor. Pull the distributor out & check the drive gear for wear. If that's good the timing belt is off a few teeth.

[TheSVOTrust]

Well, tried to fire her yesterday and no luck.

Fuel pressure was 42 psi when cranking, but dropped off immediately after stopping, that means I need a new regulator right?

After a few tries (10 second max) it backfired (and scared the heck out of my wife who was in the car and daughter who was filming :) - this means I had spark right?

I pulled the plugs and all 4 were a little wet and smelled like gas - this means the injectors are firing right?

No fuel smell after 5 minutes or so of sitting, so no leaks (24+ hours later in the garage still no gas smell)

I did a couple of quick checks but nothing seemed obvious. I had a mark on the cam sprocket and belt when I set the timing, but when I tried to check the marks it was off by several teeth, so I guess I need to retime it. (New Esslinger tensioner already)

It may be a couple of weeks before I can try again. Other ideas of what to look at? (Yes I'll be searching for 'no start' threads as well this week.)

Thanks,

Chris


Hi Chris

SEEING that you only get to the car on "occasions" I would set up PHONE SUPPORT ahead of time with a member. (or even have a GA member join you)

REREADING the post above you may have mistakenly dropped the distributor at the wrong point. You stated set cam and crank using string method - BUT THEN moved the crank to 10BTDC and dropped the distributor. That would be wrong!

When you go back PLAN on returning crank to TDC. Take the cap off and look at rotor. IF it isn't pointing at #1 (basically to the front corner of the lower intake) pull the distributor and drop on #1.

Mark
P.S. IF you feel that the belt itself is off (I doubt it) and intend on redoing it. TAKE THE TIME to set the aux shaft "hearing the injector pulse" when doing it.

[Mike S]

Chris,

With the 2.1 Boport cam, you will need to advance it 8-12* from stock timing marks to get it to idle properly. Get a vacuum gauge that has the red/green zones from Harbor Freight to help dial it in. And as Mark says, get the ignition timing set correctly first.

[ChrisCurtin]

Hi,

Tried again yesterday to start her. Since my last post:

- new coil
- new PIP, TFI
- checked crank pointer (I have one of the nice MC Machine ones)
- dropped the distributor pointing to #1 with crank at TDC.
- checked timing belt timing, still good
- pulled codes, only one about the TPS out of range.
- fully charged battery

Video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Geta-LA_ks&feature=youtu.be

I asked my wife if the tach moved at all while cranking and she said no.

I smell gas, all 4 plugs are wet but not soaked.

Any ideas? Does it sound like she's trying to start?

Thanks

Chris

[MikeFleming]

First thought: Video sounds like plug wires are in the wrong order.

1 - 3 - 4 - 2 - clockwise on dist cap (iirc).

[ChrisCurtin]

THanks Mike. Just checked and it is 1-3-4-2 and that is how she's wired.


First thought: Video sounds like plug wires are in the wrong order.

1 - 3 - 4 - 2 - clockwise on dist cap (iirc).

[Mike S]

Sounds like a timing issue. I believe your cam timing is still off. Are you using an aftermarket adjustable cam gear? If so, you can't use the timing mark for setting the cam timing. Pull it off and align the key ways with a stock unit to locate the timing mark at 0* TDC. Then use a punch and mark the gear in the same location on the new gear relative to the key way. Then reset your timing and try again.

[ChrisCurtin]

Sounds like a timing issue. I believe your cam timing is still off. Are you using an aftermarket adjustable cam gear? If so, you can't use the timing mark for setting the cam timing. Pull it off and align the key ways with a stock unit to locate the timing mark at 0* TDC. Then use a punch and mark the gear in the same location on the new gear relative to the key way. Then reset your timing and try again.

Thanks Mike.

I used the stock gear to setup the Esslinger one. There is a mark on the Esslinger gear that is what I used to check the timing.

[ChrisCurtin]

I had a thought last night. My original wiring harness was in pretty bad shape and I repaired quite a few things, including the TFI harness, replacing it with a newer one that has a 'pill' style SPOUT instead of the cylinder.

I can't get to the car right now, but I'm pretty sure I checked all the wires I fixed were matched to what I cut out. That will be the first thing next time I get to work on the car.

I'm going to look over the EVTM I have to see if there are any tests for the TFI that could also tell me if there is a wiring issue. Any thoughts on how to confirm electrically everything is okay?

Finally if I wanted to try to move the timing what way do I move the distributor? I checked my #1 mark on the distributor body is directly under the #1 post when assembled but figured it wouldn't hurt to try to move it a few degrees right?

Thanks

Chris

[MikeFleming]

Finally if I wanted to try to move the timing what way do I move the distributor? I checked my #1 mark on the distributor body is directly under the #1 post when assembled but figured it wouldn't hurt to try to move it a few degrees right? Pull the TFI pill and get a timing light on it - rotate to close to 10 BTDC.

Alternately leave the pill in and set it to 30 degrees with it running. Have your "assistant" work the throttle until it's stable with timing.

Get the timing light setup first.

[Mike S]

Finally if I wanted to try to move the timing what way do I move the distributor? I checked my #1 mark on the distributor body is directly under the #1 post when assembled but figured it wouldn't hurt to try to move it a few degrees right?

Thanks

Chris

Yes, you can rotate the distributor while cranking to get to the sweet spot. Loosen the hold down bolt enough so that you can rotate it, but it will hold its new postion. Have someone crank it over and rotate in small increments. BTDC is towards the intake.

Do you have the Esslinger cam gear set on the zero mark? If so, you will want to advance it with the Boport 2.1 cam.

[Raven855]

I had my best results with the BoPort 2.1 cam when it was set at 3* advance.
The rotor turns in a clockwise direction. Turning the distributor counter clock wise advances the timing.
There have been a few instances of the bypass relief valve on the oil pump sticking when turning the engine backwards from rotation. A little bit shouldn't matter as you are playing with timing but it is generally a good idea to rotate the engine only in the running direction.

[ChrisCurtin]

Thanks Mike, it is 0 now. So 3* like Raven suggested? I'll try that too.


Yes, you can rotate the distributor while cranking to get to the sweet spot. Loosen the hold down bolt enough so that you can rotate it, but it will hold its new postion. Have someone crank it over and rotate in small increments. BTDC is towards the intake.

Do you have the Esslinger cam gear set on the zero mark? If so, you will want to advance it with the Boport 2.1 cam.

[Mike S]

Thanks Mike, it is 0 now. So 3* like Raven suggested? I'll try that too.

I would set it to the middle point of the advance direction scale. After you get it running and idling, then you can check with a vacuum meter to see what works best for your setup.