What's with you the high idle a every start?

[soldthedart]

PE swap, newly reworked Injectors, square intake, fuel rail,Yada Yada yada.
Not the AIC or the TPS, no vac leak good fuel 15psi boost.
Not that any of that matters but it sure seems like its the ecu doing it.
I can have it running fine, shut it off and restart 20 seconds or 20 minutes it idles Up to 2700 rpm and then after a short period it idles back down to 900.
Why????

[Ford Builder]

My TPS was doing just that, just what your car was doing and changed the TPS and its working fine , not saying that your car may have another problem, if you have good used one to try.

[MikeFleming]

Look for EEC code 23. If resent, fix / replace / adjust the TPS and/or TPS wiring [harness].

[soldthedart]

I bought the TPS at NPD when I first got the car back on the road.
You think it is out of adjustment?
I swapped out the injectors but didn't mess with the TPS.
Just checked the NPD site and they call for a different TPS for the 86 car.
Wrong TPS?

[MikeFleming]

All SVO TPSs are electrically the same - only the connector housing [size] varies.

Is the car setting an EEC Code 23?

[soldthedart]

Apparently my Check Engine light does not work. So not having a anolog meter or a test light I went ahead and set the IAC and the TPS to spec and the car does the same thing. I may go up and swap the AIC for a replacement, I bought it at Oreillys and try that.
Im really getting tired of this issue.

[MikeFleming]

SVOs do not come with Check Engine lights - nothing is connected to the EEC on the dash to read codes.

If it *ever* goes back to a normal idle speed, it is NOT am IAC issue.

Spend $20 and get an EEC-IV tester. It will make your life of owning an SVO much easier.

[soldthedart]

Thanks Mike, I thought there was a check engine light! LOL
It does go back to normal idle and as I said its whenever you start the car now.
Initially after the swap it did not do this, very frustrating indeed.
I take the car out and it runs great no lag and extremely quick. If it did not smoke after restart after a drive and it did not rev up to almost 3 grand at start up it would be my daily driver for sure. I thought maybe it was a flooding issue where you would get gas vapors past the rings into the crank case and the PCV system would pull them into the intake on start up. but it is every-time I start the car.

[Meotchh]

http://www.svocop.com/Articles/3/index.html

[soldthedart]

code is 63? any ideas

[MikeFleming]

code is 63? any ideas

63 TPS INPUT TOO LOW

http://www.svocop.com/Articles/7/index.html

[soldthedart]

I have it set at .94 what should it be at?

[MikeFleming]

That should be fine.

I would bet there's a problem in the wiring or an open spot in the TPS itself. If it's new, check/replace the wiring back to the firewall harness area - the stuff that lives inside the firewall tray.

[soldthedart]

Thanks Mike, Ill look into the wiring and see if I can find an issue with it.
I had checked the tps and full sweep with no opens were detectable with a digital meter.

[soldthedart]

rechecking my connector with the TPS unplugged and key on I only have 2.78vdc between the power wire and the battery ground.
Isnt it suppose to be around 5vdc?. This is the orange wire showing the voltage.

[MikeFleming]

Yes, 5.00VDC +/- 3%.

Check the VREF - 5 VDC line at the VAF also.

[soldthedart]

Yes, 5.00VDC +/- 3%.

Check the VREF - 5 VDC line at the VAF also.

The what and the what?
English man can you speak it? LOL
Do you mean air meter and Barometric sensor?

[soldthedart]

I check the TPS setting and full motion.
I noticed it was set at 1.5vdc and would not go over 2.8vdc at full stroke.
Tried adjusting the TPS Still will not read over 2.8vdc.
I checked the connector from the harness with the TPS unplugged.
Orange wire shows 2.8vdc so I checked the VAM plug.
Same situation.
Is my PE junk?

[soldthedart]

The what and the what?
English man can you speak it? LOL
Do you mean air meter and Barometric sensor?

Mike, I was only trying to be funny, not that Ive ever been very good at it!

[MikeFleming]

VAF = Vane Air Flow meter. That flapper aluminum box thingie on the right front fender area between the air cleaner and the turbo inlet.

Look up the wiring diagram and check to see if the VREF wire (aka the 5.0 VDC reference line) is 5.0 VDC at the VAF connector.

If it's too low there also (like the 2.78 found on the TPS connector) then you either have a wiring issue between VREF wire and the EEC (at the 60-pin connector), the EEC is bad (it supplies the regulated VREF 5.0 VDC power) or there is a huge load on the VREF circuit. Unplug all EEC sensor and test VREF again.

[soldthedart]

swapped back in my old ecu from my 85 still same voltage.
Is it suppose to be 5vdc?

[soldthedart]

MIke do you mean unplug all of the sensors like the IAC and the TPS?
If so I tested that way already. But there was 2.8vdc on 2 of the 4 pins on the VAF, Could that be it?
I know the ref terminal is in the center of the connector but it looks like the VAT terminal is also showing around the same voltage but that is the Air temp signal right?.

[Meotchh]

Disconnect all of the following sensors IAC, TPS, VAF, BP or BPS, & VAT. Once those sensors are disconnected, check for your VREF. If it is still low, you will need to check for wiring faults somewhere or you have a bad EEC.

This is all detailed in the manuals we sell. http://www.svocop.com/forum/showthread.php?1585-2-3-Turbo-manual-available-for-Bellevue-and-Sturgis&highlight=manual

[soldthedart]

I don't think its the EEC, I had swapped in my old one with the same results unless that one went bad sitting on my shelf.LOL
I had everything disconnected you have listed but the VAT ? Not sure what that is and I dont see a listing on the wiring schematic I have. I thought the VAT signal was part of the VAF Connector and that is reading 2.8vdc.
does the manual show the internal circuitry of the EEC?
If its a short it would save time to see the 5vdc circuit to determine what wire faulted would affect this circuit.
If VREF is the only 5vdc circuit output on the EEC then the wiring problem would be easier to Isolate.
Are the three sensors TPS, BPS and the VAF junctioned under the hood in the firewall tray or in the Kick panel?
I can run a temporary wire out from the Vref terminal to the three sensors and see if that isolates it.
Kind of a pain in the butt though.
I have no problem sending you the money for the manual as you guys have helped me out on several issues Ive had.
My zip is 48428 for shipping.
do you take visa or will a postal money order work?

[soldthedart]

Anyone know approximate location where the factory spliced the VREF wire for the BPS and the VAF?
I think that the problem is in that area but I don't want to unravel anymore of my 30 year old wiring harness than I have to.

[soldthedart]

Well the voltage is fine!
It turned out the battery in my Fluke meter was dying and giving eronious readings, voltage at VREF 5.1.
I reset the TPS to .91 and no more code 63.
I unplug the IAC and no 2700 rpm start, the car does not idle as good as it did with the old 30lb injectors and the 85 eec but it runs really good when you are on the gas. It kinda looks like it may be the IAC ?

[MikeFleming]

Disconnect all of the following sensors IAC, TPS, VAF, BP or BPS, & VAT. Juat FYI: The IAC is NOT an input and does not, normally, have any connection to the VREF signal.


I unplug the IAC and no 2700 rpm start, the car does not idle as good as it did with the old 30lb injectors and the 85 eec but it runs really good when you are on the gas. It kinda looks like it may be the IAC ? Does it eventually come back to a "nornal" idle speed with the IAC connected? If so, then the IAC is working as it should.

The next question is why is it so high on initial start-up? Check the CTS value.

BTW - if you have an in-line intake with the knock sensor connected and are using a PE/LA3 EEC, it will NEVER run right. Especially under power. But this won't cause a cold high-idle.

Also note that the cold-start and cold-stabilized idle speed settings are learned values (as are fuel corrections). Everytime you reset the EEC or pull battery power from it, it must relearn.

[soldthedart]

Does it eventually come back to a "nornal" idle speed with the IAC connected? If so, then the IAC is working as it should.

Yes it returns to a normal idle speed, it drops like a switch is flipped to 900rpm and idles a bit rough the idles up to around 1250rpm and stays there for the most part.

The next question is why is it so high on initial start-up? Check the CTS value.

Im not sure how to check the CTS Value.

BTW - if you have an in-line intake with the knock sensor connected and are using a PE/LA3 EEC, it will NEVER run right. Especially under power. But this won't cause a cold idle.

I have the 86 sqaure intake set up with the knock sensor from the old intake installed.

Also note that the cold-start and cold-stabilized idle speed settings are learned values (as are fuel corrections). Everytime you reset the EEC or pull battery power from it, it must relearn.

So perhaps I need to run it for a while? the voltage to the sensors is fine the idle quality is something to be desired.

[soldthedart]

Car.runs great! 2700RPM at start up really sucks.
I'm stumped.
ECT causing cold.start?

[soldthedart]

Swapped in a new ECT, Gonna swap in a new IAC.
Worst case I end up installing new sensors in my 29 year old car.
Ive read about 100 posts if Ive read 1 regarding the same thing and none of them ever seem to be cut and dry.
It would seem this is a common problem that has no solution except spending money.
Must be a Ford thing?

[soldthedart]

unplugged IAC and reset idle to 1k and tps @ .94 car starts and runs fine.
After a 3 mile ride.
Restart at a steady 1k idle. Im not sure if not using the IAC detrimental to the engine, it seems unlikely.
I cant seem to find any vac leak, Ive spayed everything over and over.
I think the $20.00 tester I got on amazon is a turd it originally gave me a code 70 then that went away on retest and was not even in memory.
Then the code 63 which had me and my dead ass tester chasing my tail that also did not get held in memory finally with the IAC unplugged I got a 22 same as the last codes, gone.

[MikeFleming]

With a hot engine and IAC disconnected, idle should be set to 750 (with AC and fans off).

[soldthedart]

True but that does not solve.my problem.
It is the high start up idle im working on.
Leaving the IAC disconnected and setting the idle with the idle adjustment on the TB is the only way that the car starts correctly.

[soldthedart]

Im sure you are right about a vac leak but I just cant seem to find it.
I took the thing apart today and drilled the additional bolt hole for the new intake even though I could detect no leak there.
I also put a clamp on the PCV line coming off the bottom of the intake and checked all of the intake bolts again.
Luckily I took the timing cover off and found that I must have left the timing guild off the crank gear and the belt was 1/4" off, yikes!!
Got a guild from a local yard and have it installed.
Mike, Your input has been greatly appreciated. hopefully I can get this figured out.

[Desert Patina]

http://www.gregsengine.com/using-a-vacuum-gauge.html

that will verify vacuum leak and / or worse things that act like vacuum leaks (but remember some tests will yield different results when the turbo kicks in and pressurizes the system). Did i read right that it smokes on restart when warm? Does it smoke when its warm and you pull away from a stoplight?

[soldthedart]

That is all good information! Thanks.
I have a vac/boost gauge on the car and it reads.steady at 21.
Obviously it drops.of under load but jumps.right back when you let off.the gas. I'll spend time tomorrow after I get my assesory belt back on and do some testing using your info.
Yes the car does.puff smoke on restart after it sets but not under load or from a stop. Only after of sits a little while.
I did notice the inside of the inlet hose off it VAM was oily but not the inside of the turbo?
Not sure what that is all about.
I think it was like that after I originally put the car back together.

[soldthedart]

I should point out that the oil residue I see in the VAM line is probably old.
I had the turbo rebuilt before assembling the car " it was leaking oil" but I reused the old hoses.
The pcv does have oil on it when inspected so I think it may not be sealing completly under boost.
I ordered one from orielys but it was obviously not for the SVO so IM still running the old one.

[MikeFleming]

Any/all oil inside the turbo inlet, VAM and VAM hose are strictly due to the PCV system. Should be on the Normal Maintenance schedule right next to engine oil changes. EVERY Type 4PCV turbo car I've ever seen does this.

Clean it a couple times a year and move on.

[soldthedart]

I will clean up the PCV system, Looks like the PCV valve does not seal very good. perhaps its time for a replacement.
Once the car was running again I did the testing using the vacuum gauge and as far as the test, healthy motor.
So since it runs fine with the IAC blocked off ill drive the car and perhaps eventually find what is causing this issue.

[soldthedart]

Car is running great with IAC blocked,No more smoke at start up.
Is it possible that these two conditions were related?

[MikeFleming]

Car is running great with IAC blocked,No more smoke at start up.
Is it possible that these two conditions were related? 1. If the IAC tubes/holes in the throttle body have oil in them, then it's possible. I suspect this to be unlikely though. Easy enough to check and rectify.

2. Operating conditions are much different on cold start with a ~2500 RPM speed. Manifold vacuum (and cylinder vacuum) are significantly higher so leaking intake valve stem seals would be accentuated. Or condensed oil on the port side of the intake valves. I wouldn't expect any difference on leaking exhaust seals.

[Under Pressure]

That sounds logical. Quite right.

[soldthedart]

To bad the cause of my cold start can't seem to be determined. But the car starts and runs fine after a couple light revs after start up. Easily mistaken for a mildly built V8 car infact! So far the only sensors the car seems to not be able to live without is the TPS and the VAM.
Currently running without the EGR, IAC, Stock boost control with no ill effects with the except of the emulation of.the IAC. I can live with that.