crazy acting p.i.m.p?

[truegraw]

hey guys hope everyone is well, newbi here thanks for the add. Here's the deal, my fog lights quit working. I was checking the plug on the fog light and shorted it out by running a wire from the top to the middle plug, (on a 3 wire plug) After this, my car acted like it didn't want to start. I got it started then noticed it wasn't running right. I figured maybe it was a turbo gasket leak or something like that. I hooked it up to the computer, (tuner studio) and seen that my throttle positioning, timing air fuel and temperature were all incorrect. But, everytime I push in the clutch, (clutch neutral safety switch is used also for launch control and runs straight to ECU), as long as the premium fuel switch is on, everthing read right. But if I let out on the clutch or flip the premium fuel switch off everything goes back to reading wrong. So with the clutch in and the switch on is the only way it reads right. So, what could I have possibly done? burnt the computer up? what do I need to check for? Any help is appreciated. Is there any kind of fuse between the fog light plug and ECU?

[truegraw]

theres two relays down by the switches (green and black) ok on the green on i have 4v coming in on yellow and orange wire(goes to zero when i push in the clutch) also 4v coming in through black white wire and 12v from brown wire? on the black relay i have 12v ging in with brown wire but nothing coming out??

[brsvo]

Have you posted this on Stingers Pro board site? They would be the ones to ask.

[Raven855]

I hooked it up to the computer, (tuner studio) and seen that my throttle positioning, timing air fuel and temperature were all incorrect. But, everytime I push in the clutch, (clutch neutral safety switch is used also for launch control and runs straight to ECU), as long as the premium fuel switch is on, everthing read right.

So, when it reads right the TPS, temp and the rest all reset back to normal? If that is right I don't see how the pimp is the problem. You have wiring issues and its not a fuse problem. Something is shorted and you are going to have to start shagging wires to find it.

[truegraw]

yes stinger basically said they it was most likely a wiring issue and they couldnt really do anything. yes when the switch is on premium and the clutch is in everything reads correctly. i sparked a wire that was used on my old ecu setup for the fan ground (looked factory but dont think that did this) and the plug for the fog light switch. both switches work like there supposed to but the relays by them seems strange. like i was saying one has 12v going in and nothing coming out and the other has 12v+4v+4v all going in nothing coming out and one of the low voltage ones goes to 0 when i ground the neutral safety switch by pushing in the clutch which is wired to the pimp for launch control. stinger did say all grounds go to pin 46

[Raven855]

What are you driving? Have you measured for voltage on pin 46? What are you using the premium switch for on the pimp?

[MikeFleming]

Normal EEC chassis/power grounds are pins 20, 40, & 60.

EEC pin 46 is the signal return for the sensor circuit, aka the reference ground for the +5.00 VDC circuit that is fed to all the sensors, NOT chassis ground. It certainly will not handle much current (inside the EEC).

Check your pimp circuit board to/from and all along the circuit path of pin 46 for burned traces. Repair as needed.

[truegraw]

1986 svo. stinger "All sensors and inputs go to EEC pin 46 for ground/reference. There should be continuity from each sensor, to this pin" this was there way of telling me to search it down. dont one of the relays i was speaking of ground for the premium switch? if that was bad would it not get good ground therefore causing the neutral switch on the clutch to act as a ground for the pimp since its run to it for the launch control and flat shift option? i looked at the pimp and could not see any visual damage?

here is a video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkuHmIfgh5I

[MikeFleming]

Key phrase is this:

"All sensors and inputs go to EEC pin 46 for ground/reference. I agree it's poor wording on Stingers part though.

It's the signal return (ideally same electrical potential as chassis ground (power return) in a DC system) but it's for an isolated, LOW POWER circuit.

Note that Chassis ground is the power return for all 12VDC (actually 11,.0 - 14.5 VDC) power circuits such as starter motor, cooling fan, rear windows defogger, lighting, radio, etc. Power and power return (aka ground) for these circuits are NOT sensitive to 0.5VDC variations.

The 5 VDC reference (sensor circuits) and associated reference signal return are EXTREMELY sensitive to 0.5 VDC variations. Hence the reason the 5VDC regulated sensor circuit has it's own reference ground. It is NOT a power circuit and should NEVER be used for a power circuit return/chassis ground path. Also note that the signal return circuit going from the sensors to EEC pin 46 NEVER uses the chassis as a current/signal path.

The Premium/Unleaded switch is a low-power/low-level input to the EEC and DOES use pin 46 as signal reference to the EEC. That is NOT a power circuit.

Hopefully this will help clear up the purpose and proper use of pin 46 in the EEC system.

[truegraw]

mike you might as well be talking Russian!!! lol is there any possible way you can dumb it down about 3 notches so i can try to understand sry

[MikeFleming]

mike you might as well be talking Russian!!! lol is there any possible way you can dumb it down about 3 notches so i can try to understand sry Both my wife and daughter are fluent in Russian, btw. Da?

I'll consume a few beers tonight and attempt a rewrite. Who knows? Might be more gooder.

[Raven855]

8704


Allot of the pimps start out as LA3 wiring. Bottom left shows the octane switch and neutral switch and where it comes into wire 46. I would start looking at the wiring in this circuit.

[truegraw]

cool maybe this will help, ill let you know what i find thanks and lol Mike

[truegraw]

ok i got no continuity between the tps and pin 46,i do have with the sensor for the air temp i installed with the innercooling piping, also pin 46 is carrying 2.74v?

[MikeFleming]

... also pin 46 is carrying 2.74v? Referenced to EEC case, EEC ground (pin 20, 40, 60), chassis ground or battery negative?

[truegraw]

so check pin 20,40,60? it was chassis ground, my Leeds are not long enough for battery

[MikeFleming]

The EEC system (and therefore the pimp) does not use chassis ground.

If you're testing for TPS voltages, use the TPS ground wire in the same harness (there's 3 wires to/from the TPS: VREF +5.0 VDC, TPS signal (varies between ~0.8 - 4.6 VDC), and SIG-RET (ground for the sensors - pin 46). Black lead always goes onto the wire to/from pin 46 (SIG-RET) when measuring any sensor voltages.

If you're testing at the EEC 60-pn connector (while it's connected to the pimp, do so at the back of the 60-pin connector and use pin 46 for signal return, verifying it is the same potential when the black lead of your DVM is connected to pin 46 as 20,s 40, 60. if any reading are different, those "grounds" and/or SIG-RET are having issues.

[truegraw]

but does Voltage at pin 46 means i got a power circuit shorted to ground?? Mike i think i may understand what you're saying?

[MikeFleming]

I would more suspect that there is an open [or very high resistance] in the pin 46 to EEC (pimp?) grounding path.

Pin 46 should be electrically equivalent to pins 20, 40, & 60, which *should* be the same as chassis and battery grounds.

[truegraw]

so Mike, an open [or very high resistance] would usually mean what in red neck terms. lol sry im no very good with anything electrical but really dont want to get put over the barrel so to speak if i have to take it somewhere

[Raven855]

Think of it in terms of water flowing in a garden hose. You turn the water on and it flows out the end of the hose. On the electricity side you would have electrons flowing, you have conductivity. If your hose has a leak, water flows out. Water and electricity always take the easy way out. In this case on the electricity side you have a leak also. The electrons are flowing out the hole and you have less at the end. It could be some one stepping on the hose too and that would be a short. In either case you have less flowing and a resistance to flow. You have more resistance, or less conductitivy. If the hose is cut you have no water, you have an open. That's alot to think about, maybe Mike could explain it more rednecky.

[blueboss]

so Mike, an open [or very high resistance] would usually mean what in red neck terms. lol sry im no very good with anything electrical but really dont want to get put over the barrel so to speak if i have to take it somewhere

An open is a broken wire or no path for electricity to flow. A garden hose not connected to the faucet on the side of the house is an open

[truegraw]

lots of good info, thanks. so i need to find a short most likely near the neutral safety switch that actually ties into the premium fuel switch and has nothing to do with the relays? Also just to make sure there is supposed to be no power at pin 46 at all?