2017 Formula 1 Racing Thread

[MikeFleming]

Starting off the discussion thread for next season, aka 2017.

Current Schedule:
26 March Australia (Melbourne)
9 April China (Shanghai)
16 April Bahrain (Sakhir)
30 April Russia (Sochi)
14 May Spain (Barcelona)
28 May Monaco
11 June Canada (Montreal)
25 June Azerbaijan (Baku)
9 July Austria (Spielberg)
16 July Britain (Silverstone)
30 July Hungary (Budapest)
27 August Belgium (Spa-Francorchamps)
3 September Italy (Monza)
17 September Singapore (Marina Bay)
1 October Malaysia (Sepang)
8 October Japan (Suzuka)
22 October USA (Austin)
29 October Mexico (Mexico City)
12 November Brazil (Sao Paulo)*
26 November Abu Dhabi
* = to be confirmed


No German GP and Sao Paulo is in question.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/38160269



(http://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/38160269)

[MikeFleming]

World champion Nico Rosberg has announced he has retired from Formula 1 with immediate effect.

The 31-year-old German won his first world title on Sunday, beating Mercedes team-mate Lewis Hamilton by finishing second in the final race in Abu Dhabi.
"I have climbed my mountain, I am on the peak, so this feels right," Rosberg said.
Rosberg won nine of this season's 21 grands prix, beating three-time champion Hamilton by five points.
"For 25 years in racing, it has been my dream, my 'one thing' to become Formula 1 world champion," he added.
"Through the hard work, the pain, the sacrifices, this has been my target. And now I've made it."

http://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/38185846

[Bob Holmes]

Every driver in F1 under contract is checking for an escape clause.


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[Meotchh]

Where will Nico be driving next year?

[MikeFleming]

Where will Nico be driving next year? Monaco. Probably just getting groceries.

[MikeFleming]

Today's Important F1 News:

http://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/38723001

Meanwhile Mauricio keeps his job at Ferrari.


(http://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/38723001)

[Bob Holmes]

Today's Important F1 News:

http://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/38723001

Meanwhile Mauricio keeps his job at Ferrari.


(http://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/38723001)

About time.

The man was instrumental in building the sport. But, his behavior and decisions over the last decade have been detrimental.


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[MikeFleming]

But, his behavior and decisions over the last decade have been detrimental. Detrimental? To who(m)? It made Bernie into a multi-billionaire.

Just sayin'!

[Bob Holmes]

[emoji106]


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[MikeFleming]

It made Bernie into a multi-billionaire. More accurately It made Bernie's children and grandkids billionaires.

Prediction: He isn't gonna be here much longer.
Remember you heard it here first.

[MikeFleming]

Now we're down to 18 cars on the starting grid:

"Manor F1: Team fold after administrator fails to find buyer"
http://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/38772098

Anyone want to buy an F1 car/team, cheap? Does SCCA Auto-X allow tyre warmers yet??

Sigh.

[Bob Holmes]

It was bound to happen. There were buyers, just not at the asking price.

Bummer though


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[MikeFleming]

There were buyers, just not at the asking price. I'm sitting here wondering if the bidding ever got over $10K/US. We could do that, right?

Hmmm ...

[Bob Holmes]

LOL


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[MikeFleming]

3 weeks. 3 weeks 3 weeks.

[MikeFleming]

One Weeks.

[Bob Holmes]

Yeeehaaawwww


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[brsvo]

One weeks?? Isn't that a oxymoron.

[MikeFleming]

One weeks?? Isn't that a oxymoron. Now it's down to six days - unless you're on the "other side" of the world (same side as the race), where it's seven days away.

"If you build it, they will come."

[Under Pressure]

Qatar! Yeah ! Yamaha ha!

[MikeFleming]

Approximately One More Days!!

[MikeFleming]

I predict we will see a new track/lap record every race weekend this year.

[Under Pressure]

Wow Yamaha pulled it off!

[MikeFleming]

BAKU: Go Lewis!!

[MikeFleming]

In case you watched the Singapore GP race, some driving awards are definitely in order.

Kimi, again, wins the Maldonado Trophy for his special driving "skillz".

[Bob Holmes]

LOL


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[MikeFleming]

For those tat are paying attention, the year just got worse for Daniil Kvyat:

https://email.noao.edu/Redirect/4C201AB6/www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/41397848

[MikeFleming]

http://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/41684310

And USA GP at Austin is this weekend.

[Bob Holmes]

Let's see if Merc and the Ham close out the championship.


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[MikeFleming]

Let's see if Merc and the Ham close out the championship. Methinks it's a given that Merc will take the Constructors Title.

Hamster 306
Vettel 247
==========
59

Merc 540
Ferrari 395
==========
145

4 races - 100 points (total) in Drivers contest
172 total (first/second) in Constructors

Points by position:
25, 18, 15, 12, 10, 8, 6, 4, 2, 1

For Ferrari to win Constuctor's title would require taking 1st and 2nd for every remaining race and for neither Hamilton or Bottas to finish higher than third and fourth in any of the remaining four races. If Ferrari placed 1/2 in all of the next four races and Merc got one 3rd and one 4th, they would tie on points and then it'd come to wins. Which Merc has more. So I'm gonna give the Constructors trophy to Merc. Again.

Drivers title is a wee bit different. It's *possible* for Vettel to win, but it'll take approximately 1.3 [Roman] miracles. For Vettel to win, he'd have to win all of the remaining races (+100) AND Hamilton will have to finish 5th or worse in *every* race.

So I'm giving Vettel's percentage of winning the Drivers title at "Most Unlikely".

Of course, I'm counting out Kimi Maldanodo's uncanny knack for taking out the competition at turn one of lap one.

[MikeFleming]

So why wasn't Seb penalized for

(1) leaving the race without meeting with the press? Its a rules requirement.

(2) passing the pole sitter (Lewis) on the warm-up lap at COTA. Precedent already set:

https://www.reddit.com/r/formula1/comments/5gwgmw/schumacher_qualifies_p2_behind_damon_hill_passes/

[Bob Holmes]

Because Ferrari


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[MikeFleming]

Because Ferrari True enough.

[Under Pressure]

Massive championship implications!

[MikeFleming]

And in today's Mexican GP, WHY wasn't Seb penalized for gaining an advantage while going off-track when he passed Massa? SV clearly left the track surface (4-over, as they say) and that was the only thing that allowed him to get in front [at that point] of Massa.

[Bob Holmes]

Harrumph. BECAUSE FERRARI!


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[Raven855]

There are 2 races left. In Brazil the track should be more favorable for Mercedes compared to Mexico. This should make it pretty even between Ferrari, RB and Mercedes. Looking at Mexico the Renault will not like the elevation, heat and humidity. There will be grid penalties with component changes also, so it should be a race between the Merc and Ferrari. The Ferrari does better in the heat with their tires. Slight edge to the Ferrari?

[MikeFleming]

Slight edge to the Ferrari? Perhaps. But Lewis is definitely on a roll and Vettel is feeling the pain/shame.

Time to fire Mauricio.

[Bob Holmes]

Ferrari will find a scapegoat. SV has more responsibility than most, given some "racing" incidents. But he's safe. Some QC issues with suppliers?

We were cheated out of a very interesting season, it could have been a barn burner.


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[Raven855]

We were cheated out of a very interesting season, it could have been a barn burner.

It’s been a confusing year. Renault starts with a 95% new engine and when they introduce some of there 2018 spec refinements, it goes to heck. Not looking good for next year. Honda really didn’t make very much improvement. Next year will probably be another disaster. Merc was the most reliable but when it went wrong it was a struggle to fix it. Ferrari continues to step on itself. What the heck happened to HAAS?

[Bob Holmes]

Really bummed by Haas. Is it the drivers? Haas says it's tires and brakes.


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[Raven855]

I think Hass and Williams are in the same boat. They both have decent reliability and good current spec power units. They both need drivers

[MikeFleming]

Considering the level of the F1 game and the other well-engineered, well-funded, highly-experienced competitors, I'd say Haas has done pretty good.

Would Haas do better with Lewis or Seb driving for them? Probably - eventually. They already have one of the top two power plants and a reasonable chassis. Don't know how good their aero is compared to the others. RoGro likes to blame the brakes for everything when 50% of the other teams do fine using the same brake components.

Vettel can be his own worst enemy with his occasional extreme moments.

And what's up with Kimi? Contract signed so no need to drive fast anymore??

I'm curious to see the new drivers in good cars. Some really good talent there. And as the other folks are getting close to 40, it's time for them to be moving on [to Indy, NASCAR, team management. announcers, ..???].

[MikeFleming]

Waaa, Waaa, Waaa ... (aka "Do it my way or I will take my ball and go home.")

http://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/41857101

New engine proposal:

http://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/41820129 (http://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/41857101)

[Bob Holmes]

Yep, they don't want any more engine manufacturers. Aston has gone so far as to hire engineers from the current manufacturers.

I think Grosjean realizes, now, that he made a career move that sidelined him. His chance of moving to a top team has been overtaken by the crop of impressive youngsters. Although, it's curious to see RB call up an older guy that they jettisoned 6 years ago. Dr. Dickhead no longer has any baby Sebs in waiting.


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[MikeFleming]

My thoughts for the last two races in 2017:

Brazil is usually cool and often rains. It's definitely an aero / power course. Advantage to Merc and RB, not so much Ferrari.

Abu is more of a mixed track but still many advantages to aero and power with it's really long straights. Another plus for Merc and RB although it's usually warmer than Brazil and rarely rains which may favor the red cars.

It also depends on the tyre selection available from our friends at Pirelli. In a way I miss the tyre explosions like Lewis had at Silverstone a couple years back. Tyres exploding instead of engines. Good times!

[Raven855]

Brazil is usually cool and often rains. It's definitely an aero / power course. Advantage to Merc and RB, not so much Ferrari.
9559
Forcast is rain and cool. Point to Mike. The corners favor the Merc over the Ferrari. It looks like a cat fight between RB and Merc and the cool weather will help the Merc tires and the RB engines. It will be an emotional race, since it will probably be Massas last home GP. I hope it is celebrated in style!

[Bob Holmes]

Yeah, looks like Massa bailed and announced retirement. I can understand. Now he gets a second big send off by the home fans.


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[Raven855]

Hear are some of the proposals for the future:

Do you think the engine formula changes for the 2021 season will have a positive or negative effect on the long-term future of Formula 1?
The features of the proposals presented to manufacturer representatives are:


1.6 Litre, V6 Turbo Hybrid
3000rpm higher engine running speed range to improve the sound
Prescriptive internal design parameters to restrict development costs and discourage extreme designs and running conditions
Removal of the MGUH
More powerful MGUK with focus on manual driver deployment in race together with option to save up energy over several laps to give a driver controlled tactical element to racing
Single turbo with dimensional constraints and weight limits
Standard energy store and control electronics
High Level of external prescriptive design to give ‘Plug-And-Play’ engine/chassis/transmission swap capability
Intention to investigate tighter fuel regulations and limits on number of fuels used

F1 believe these changes will benefit teams in the long run, make GPs more exciting for the fans, increase the sound of the engines and also improve sustainability, lower costs, and increase competitiveness amongst teams.
Ross Brawn and the Communications team are very interested in what some of the most engaged and expert fans think of the proposals.
We also have a short survey here: https://www.surveymonkey.co.uk/r/2021Engines
What’s your opinion about the changes?

[MikeFleming]

So the plan is to increase the MAX allowable RPM to 21K?? The current max RPM limit is 18K while most tams are limiting actual running RPMs under load to 15K to stay within the max fuel flow limitation. Unless the max fuel flow limit is increased, none of them will get to 21K anyway.

I don't zee there being much change in F1 with new engine / powerplant regs. We've done this before with at engine specs changing at least every decade once we got past the first turbo era.

[Raven855]

Actually the current rpm limit is 15K. Most limit to 11,500 because of fuel. I saw where one of the proposals was 20% increase in fuel supply to allow rpm limits to be met.

[MikeFleming]

Actually the current rpm limit is 15K. Most limit to 11,500 because of fuel. I saw where one of the proposals was 20% increase in fuel supply to allow rpm limits to be met. I stand corrected on the RPM limits.

I suspect to handle a 20% increase in fuel will require re-fueling at pit stops. Several teams are alrrady at the minimum limit after the race.

I'm also curious to see how McLaren does with Renault power next year. With the recent engine failures for RB, I'd be very worried if I were McLaren.

Alonzo will retire in '19 and go to race Indy cars.

Massa will retire this year and come back again mid-year '18. Then retire a third time for real. His home garage will have three Williams F1 cars in it. Tokens form Frank.

[Raven855]

If the fuel is increased but the fuel is more supplier-controlled it will still be a redesign of the engine. The Renault this is 95% new to take better advantage of the fuel. Massa a third time, hmmm.........

[MikeFleming]

New track lap record for Lewis during FP1 in Brazil:

https://www.autoblog.com/2017/11/10/championship-clinched-yet-lewis-hamilton-sets-record-in-brazil/

Speaking of McLaren, if my count is correct, more Renault engines have gone ka-blamoo! than Honda engines since they signed their contract to use Renault power starting in 2018. Should they be worried??

Methinks it would be good for them to have a year-to-year contract at this point.

[Raven855]

Thoughts on Brazil. I think everyone is tired of the violence and I wouldn’t be surprised to see the race moved somewhere else. Everyone is praising Hamilton but the reality is that he started from pit lane with a new engine, transmission and the car was setup for the track conditions. The day before was much cooler and humid and Hamilton had a huge benefit setting up for the heat. Maybe that should be a new condition, after qualifying if you are not in the top 10 you can make adjustments to the car setup before the race. I always cringe when Vettle or Hamilton complain about another driver but I am really tired of Grosjean and Verstappen every race. I am deginnning to think Hass will not improve with their current drivers. McClaren has become stagnant. Hondas have no power and reliability. Are we seeing Renault imploding? One more race, Mercedes, Ferrari and RedBull should be on the podium

[Bob Holmes]

The issues in Brazil should doom that location. Someone will eventually get shot.

Hamilton and Ricardo were the class of the field, with the aforementioned advantages. If anything, it might illustrate how Mercedes will runaway from everyone if they loosen the fuel restrictions.

Absolutely agree about Haas. A bit of a shame.


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[MikeFleming]

Weren't they talking about not using the Sao Paulo track a couple years back? Saying it needed a total refresh?

[Bob Holmes]

Yes


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[Raven855]

I think the problems were more extensive this year. Massa moved his family out of there.

[MikeFleming]

Truly sad. That track has much history. Many championships decided there.

But we all know it takes tens of millions (dollars) to stay on the F1 schedule. If F1 was really so worried about costs associated with F1, they'd cut the host track fees.

[Bob Holmes]

I agree.

Bernie didn't give a damn, just squeezed until we lost historical tracks and replaced them with passing resistant circuits in crappy locations.


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[MikeFleming]

Speaking of Korea...

... replaced them with passing resistant circuits in crappy locations.

What ever happened to that "new" track in Jersey they were talking up a couple years back? USA #2??

[Bob Holmes]

Vaporware. Just like the one before it, just like the one before that, just...


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[Raven855]

If Haas can recover we may still see a 2nd circuit in the US. In the meantime Kubica should be joining Williams.

[MikeFleming]

Keeping the F1 discussion going:

http://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/42148636

[Raven855]

Kubica, Sirotkin, Paul di Resta or Daniil Kvyat? Who will be the next Williams driver? What’s taking Williams so long? Have they figured out that Lance isn’t cutting it and they need to replace him too?

[MikeFleming]

I had kinda thought that Kyvat's F1 career had reached peak when he was with Red Bull. And it went downhill since then. Methinks there are more promising drivers available than Daniel. Several in GP2/F2 that are looking to get ahead.

[Raven855]

An Italian newspaper has claimed Massa will be back!

[MikeFleming]

An Italian newspaper has claimed Massa will be back!
Uh-Hmmm ... I said it first.

This past Brazil race was "Massa'a Second Annual Last Home Race" just before his "Second Annual Final F12 Race".

Somewhere I have a t-shirt noting the "Fifth Annual Closing of Riverside International Raceway". And then I drove there with a Ferrari-Porsche Owners Club event in early March, 1989 - three years after the Fifth Annual Closing event. Good times.

Unfortunately it's dead now. Big. Sigh.

[Bob Holmes]

Stroll doesn't belong in F1. But he comes with suitcases full of money. Williams, unfortunately, needs cargo containers full of money.


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[MikeFleming]

Williams, unfortunately, needs cargo containers full of money. That statement is true for all teams except Ferrari, Mercedes, McLaren and perhaps Red Bull.

[Raven855]

Stroll doesn't belong in F1.

Agreed. Add Verstappen to that list. He is arrogant, brash and wreckless!

[Bob Holmes]

What 18 year-old isn't.


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[MikeFleming]

Agreed. Add Verstappen to that list. He is arrogant, brash and wreckless! Yeah. Kinda reminds me of Ayrton Senna in his earlier - and later - years.

[MikeFleming]

One more thing I will say about Max - he sure has a bad habit of breaking cars, engines, hydraulics, etc. Curious that his teammate [with the same equipment] doesn't break anywhere near as much stuff.

[Bob Holmes]

Agreed. He reminds me of early Grosjean.


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[MikeFleming]

First read makes it look even more retarded that the current 2017 rules on power units.

http://autoweek.com/article/formula-one/fia-changes-regulations-f1-power-unit-changes-racing-wet-circuits

[Raven855]

First read makes it look even more retarded that the current 2017 rules on power units.

http://autoweek.com/article/formula-one/fia-changes-regulations-f1-power-unit-changes-racing-wet-circuits

Agreed, we will just have to wait and see though. Friday we should see an announcement from Williams on who will be driving for them next year. Probably Sirotkin.....

[Raven855]

http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12430/11167994/f1-2018-sergey-sirotkin-beats-robert-kubica-to-williams-seat. Happened earlier this week but its news worthy.

[MikeFleming]

New blood. WIlliams. Nothing new here.

I'm not surprised that Kubica isn't in a top spot. 7 years out of F1 is a career killer for sure. I think it would be miraculous for him to be competitive today.

[Raven855]

Mike, are you making predictions for Williams in the new year?

[MikeFleming]

I'm not ready yet to make any predictions for 2018,

I was mostly commenting that Williams has been known to "try" new drivers more than most. Although most of the other [well-funded] teams have new drivers on retainer and doing assortedtesting for them.

[MikeFleming]

2018 Formula 1 thread starts here:

https://www.svocop.com/forum/showthread.php?3484-2018-Formula-1-Racing-Thread