Coil over discussion...

[Laredo]

Finally got my car out of winter storage, quick checkover reveals the ball joint boots are split open, and now both front struts are leaking oil badly (sheesh - only lasted 26 years!!). As long as I gotta spend some dough, considering going w/coil-overs. According to MM, less unsprung weight, more wheel rate but keep decent ride quality. Seems like nice compromise for a non-daily driver occasional auto-crosser. What's bothering me is the thought of all the front end load/weight transferred to the strut towers where is it was never designed or intended to go. Seems like a strut brace would be a must, but I can't find one that will fit with the stock intercooler. Any thoughts / opinions / experiences welcomed.....

[Bob Holmes]

Hard core racers plate the top of the strut tower in order to reinforce the area in question. I can't imagine how a strut tower brace would solve the problem.

[Laredo]

Hard core racers...

I certainly don't fit that description. :)


...I can't imagine how a strut tower brace would solve the problem.

I was thinking the towers woluld have a tendency to lean inward with a full suspension load on them.

[Raven855]

There have been a few discussions of this over on CornerCarvers. I think the general consenses for a fox body is that they don't do much and to get any benefit they have to trianglated back to the fire wall. After having an early mustang, it is hard to grasp that it doesn't do much, but it seems that is the way it is. The nice thing about the coil overs is the way it changes the feel of the front end, it is so much more responsive. The other item that changed the feel and responsiveness of the front end was the M&M caster camber plates. I had some cheaper plates in the first time and it didn't change much, but putting a bearing in that top mount instead of a bushing changed the steering feel quite abit.

[MikeFleming]

Note that with CO's in the front, you MUST have a solid bearing in the CC plates - ALL the front suspension load goes to that bearing.

I did not specifically reinforce the towers or upper area on my red car, but I did stitch weld ALL the seams on the chassis front to rear - especially all the front inner fender stuff that only came with very intermittent spot welds. As you can probably tell, it's a LOT of work.

892893894896897

[MikeFleming]

Finished/installed pics of the front.

898899

[Bob Holmes]

TIG on that crappy sheetmetal, you are a perfectionist! (I'll ignore the burn through holes:stick_poke: )

[MikeFleming]

TIG on that crappy sheetmetal, you are a perfectionist! (I'll ignore the burn through holes:stick_poke: ) If you look carefully, there were holes and/or gaps in the metal already. The welds merely go around the holes. Not a great pic, but it shows the pre-weld holes/gaps if you look closely to the far right.

I didn't do the welding. Dennis did most of the welding - and he does pretty good work, imho.

900901

[Laredo]

Note that with CO's in the front, you MUST have a solid bearing in the CC plates - ALL hte front suspension load goes to that bearing.

Yep - have that covered with the MM CC plates. They say the spherical bearing is supposed to be rated for 10,000 lbs.

Thanks for sharing the photos. PS - I luv RED. :like4r:

[Laredo]

Finished/installed pics of the front.

What size springs did you go with? How's the ride / handling?

[MikeFleming]

They say the spherical bearing is supposed to be rated for 10,000 lbs.
The bearing, perhaps. The stock front and rear shock tower sheet metal? Probably not. - definitely not in the rear


What size springs did you go with? How's the ride / handling? 350 front, 200 rear (no torque arm). Ride is surprisingly good and handles better than stock. DA shocks/struts are set at 2 on all adjustments (up/down). The 13" brakes work phenomenally well after i got the MC sizing right (15/16"). The 2750 Lb final weight doesn't hurt either.

However it's VERY noisy inside with all the semi-solid suspension bushings and mounts. There's not much give or vibration absorption in the MM front k-frame or a-arm pieces and all the wheel [road] vibrations get sent straight to the chassis with those solid upper shock/strut mounts. Tightening screws that hold the interior panels on (and the rear upper wing!) is now a regular maintenance item.

The jungle gym in the back really stiffens the chassis - only need one jack point per side to raise/lower the car and all three doors still open/close same on jack stands - unlike a stock chassis. But alas there's very little place to carry a small suitcase or cooler on road trips.

[Laredo]

...The nice thing about the coil overs is the way it changes the feel of the front end, it is so much more responsive....

You still have the IRS?

[Laredo]

...However it's VERY noisy inside with all the semi-solid suspension bushings and mounts. There's not much give or vibration absorption in the MM front k-frame or a-arms pieces and all the wheel [road] vibrations get sent straight to the chassis with those solid upper shock/strut mounts. Tightening screws that hold the interior panels on (and the rear upper wing!) is now a regular maintenance item....

Hmmm...that's a significant consideration. I detest rattles.

[Raven855]

You still have the IRS?
Yes, still have it. My intention is to start a thread on the IRS install including a rebuild of the subframe assembly. I have been collecting parts(I am cheap) way too long now and have brought alot of the parts together for one big project. I need to finialize a few items on the build first though.

[Raven855]

350 front, 200 rear (no torque arm). Ride is surprisingly good and handles better than stock. DA shocks/struts are set at 2 on all adjustments (up/down). The 13" brakes work phenomenally well after i got the MC sizing right (15/16"). The 2750 Lb final weight doesn't hurt either.

Could you refresh my memory Mike. What did you do for the rear calipers, SN95 or Stock SVO? What did you choose for brake pads? What about the brake booster?

[MikeFleming]

Rear calipers are stock SVO stuff with some unknown metallic pads. The calipers and associated bracketry have been powdercoated (red or black).

Front uses '96 SN95 spindles, Cobra caliper kit from FoMoCo that has been machined and re-painted with the SVO logo. MC is a 94 Cobra aluminum unit machined to fit the stock SVO booster (a reman unit). Custom stainless lines from Classic Tube connect the MC to the stock SVO PV.

Cobra M-4210-C caliper kit
940

Caliper after machining and paint stripping
941

Caliper painted
942

Cobra MC on left/SVO on right
937

Cutting the Cobra MC
938

After cutting
939

[MikeFleming]

The foglamp holes are used to duck air into fgrp funnels where hoses take the air to the backing plates on the front spindles to guide it into the center of the rotors. Front rotors are EradiSpeed's 2-piece thingies.

Rotor
947

Front air scoops
949

Cooler backing plates
948

Cooling hose to spindle
950

Wheel clearance
951

[Bob Holmes]

That is some great work Mike.

[Patrick]

^^^ Bob, stop encouraging him!

[MikeFleming]

Thanks Bob.

Pat - you're banned (until your next post!).

[03shkr]

Got a parts list for the thing required to complete the ducting? I hope to get my SVO on the track and I like this.


The foglamp holes are used to duck air into fgrp funnels where hoses take the air to the backing plates on the front spindles to guide it into the center of the rotors. Front rotors are EradiSpeed's 2-piece thingies.

Rotor
947

Front air scoops
949

Cooler backing plates
948

Cooling hose to spindle
950

Wheel clearance
951

[MikeFleming]

That was a long time ago.

Funnels in foglamp holes:
https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productselection.asp?Product=3624

EradiSpeed Plus rotors:
http://www.lethalperformance.com/baer-96-04-cobra-eradispeed-plus-front-rotors-2-piece-rotor.html

RAYBESTOS #MC390217 1994 Cobra Master Cylinder (rockauto)

This looks close to the backing plates and hose kit
http://www.fordracingpartsdirect.com/Ford_Racing_Brake_Cooling_Kit_p/m-2004-a.htm

What else you need?

[Raven855]

Got a parts list for the thing required to complete the ducting? I hope to get my SVO on the track and I like this.
One of the things to consider is that the 96 and newer spindles with the straight arm are much easier to add ducting to. It is a challenge to add it to the 94-95 spindle.

[MikeFleming]

Note that brake cooling ducts are not especially suitable for street cars. Brakes will remain too cold for most operations (unless you use really soft pads) and all the oils/water/dirt/rocks/exhaust mess from the roadways will end up all over your rotors. YMMV.

[Raven855]

Pegasus Racing is the kit I have with the 96 spindles on the 1C. It included the backing plate and hose. I got my 2 piece hat and rotor from Todd at TCE. I just swapped out my calipers and turned down the rotors to 1.1 inch. I was using a 1.25 inch rotor with a corvette C5 caliper. The C5 caliper has larger pistons and accepted the thicker rotor. It uses the same pad and brake line as the Cobra though.

[03shkr]

That was a long time ago.

Funnels in foglamp holes:
https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productselection.asp?Product=3624

EradiSpeed Plus rotors:
http://www.lethalperformance.com/baer-96-04-cobra-eradispeed-plus-front-rotors-2-piece-rotor.html

RAYBESTOS #MC390217 1994 Cobra Master Cylinder (rockauto)

This looks close to the backing plates and hose kit
http://www.fordracingpartsdirect.com/Ford_Racing_Brake_Cooling_Kit_p/m-2004-a.htm

GREAT info, Thanks

[03shkr]

What else you need?

A lift, and someone to install the parts.... :)

[03shkr]

Everything is SVO in the front end, except for the ball joint Roberto put in....

[03shkr]

Note that brake cooling ducts are not especially suitable for street cars. Brakes will remain too cold for most operations (unless you use really soft pads) and all the oils/water/dirt/rocks/exhaust mess from the roadways will end up all over your rotors. YMMV.

Hmmmmmm.... Good point... If I use the Fog Lamp opening, maybe I can find a way to hold the Fog Light Covers on while driving on the street.....

Just a thought.... Or maybe a brain fart, I dunno......

[MikeFleming]

A lift, and someone to install the parts.... :) Shucks - I can install parts and Chalks can hold my beer.


Everything is SVO in the front end, except for the ball joint Roberto put in.... Ahh, my red car's front suspension stuff is a varied assortment of stuff.

Spindles are 96 sn95
Brakes are 13" Cobra sn95
k-frame is a MM tubular for Fox for 5.0 (versus the Fox for a 4.6 k-frame)
KONI's are the D/A models for a Fox
steering rack is the standard HP Ford rack, 2.5T ltl, with MM's solid mounts
Front a-arms are MM's standard offset tubular
C/O kit is MM for KONI
Springs are <forgot name - it's on the box somewhere> at 350 Lb/in
tie rod ends are MM's bump steer kit for Fox, iirc, with the spindle arms drilled for a 5/8" bolt
anti-roll (sway) bar in front is a stock SVO that's been gloss black PC'd
Upper CC plates are Steeda Fox

What else?

[03shkr]

A lift, and someone to install the parts.... :)


Shucks - I can install parts and Chalks can hold my beer.


When I get my lift, I can install parts too, I guess.

And you know that if you let Chalky hold your beer, you're gonna get it back empty...

[Becools]

Nice work! Are those koni sports? how much did the 2 piece 13" rotors set you back?

[MikeFleming]

Front use 8742-1121 Sport Double-Adjustable.
Rear use 8042-1134 Sport Double-Adjustable.

Curious that KONI considers all DA struts/shocks to be race-only items and only warranties them for 90 days.

I bought the EradiSpeed+ rotors through a company in Canada that had them listed on their website for $531.10/US (pair) plus $23.75/US shipping with no sales tax. USA prices were in the $700/pair range then, plus shipping (Baer in is Phoenix, about 130 miles up the road from me).

Today they're priced about $475/US each ($950/pair!). Which is not too bad for two piece rotors as the Brembo's for the front of the EVO list for ~$800 each.

[Laredo]

... Ahh, my red car's front suspension stuff is a varied assortment of stuff.

Spindles are 96 sn95
Brakes are 13" Cobra sn95
k-frame is a MM tubular for Fox for 5.0 (versus the Fox for a 4.6 k-frame)
KONI's are the D/A models for a Fox
steering rack is the standard HP Ford rack, 2.5T ltl, with MM's solid mounts
Front a-arms are MM's standard offset tubular
C/O kit is MM for KONI
Springs are <forgot name - it's on the box somewhere> at 350 Lb/in
tie rod ends are MM's bump steer kit for Fox, iirc, with the spindle arms drilled for a 5/8" bolt
anti-roll (sway) bar in front is a stock SVO that's been gloss black PC'd
Upper CC plates are Steeda Fox

What else?

What do you have in the rear?

[MikeFleming]

What do you have in the rear? MM's lower a-arms without spring perches, with anti-sway bar mounts
Upper rear arms are Ford Motorsports replacments that I got like 20 years ago that sat in a box (as lots of parts have over the decades)
Stock upper arm rubber bushings in the diff housing
Ford 8.8 rear housing with (currently) 4.10 gears.
Torsen differential
KONI DA shocks
MM rear KONI C/O kit and 200 #/in springs
I alternate between the stock SVO rear anti-sway bar and the larger GT one (both PC'd gloss black) for when I have an urgent need to non power-related oversteer (like under braking at an auto-x)
Stock SVO rear calipers and brakes (painted red and black)

That's all I can recall just now.