SVO on e85

[cookin86]

I was just curious. Has anyone ever converted and SVO to use e85? I heard it runs cleaner and cooler, is good for turbo cars in particular because of the lower exhaust temps so you gain some horsepower. I also heard gas mileage goes down about 15%, but it's also a little bit cheaper.

Any thoughts?

I also heard it's corrosive to rubber and plastic. Would we have any issues based on that? I haven't looked at my fuel line to see if it's plastic, steel, aluminum etc.

[brsvo]

There are people on Turbo Ford that run it and love it. You have to go to MS and run big injectors though. I don't know about the fuel line issues but they are plastic.

[MikeFleming]

I don't know about the fuel line issues but they are plastic. The fuel lines are Nylon 66 and all the (original and replacement) o-rings and hoses are either viton or neoprene. No rubber in any Ford fuel system since ~1980 and earlier.

[Laredo]

I've been running a "poor man's" setup for E85 for 2 yrs (52# injectors, adjustable FPR, wideband O2, and about 20 minutes of dyno time), everything else is 100% stock, right down to the air cleaner. Last dyno run pulled 217hp, 275 ft-lbs at the wheels. Love the way it pulls!! :cool:
I have a Megasquirt and 85lb injectors on the shelf waiting for other priorities to get done (home, family, job, etc).

[caroth]

I have been running e85 for a few years in my SVO and turbo Ranger when I had it. I took every part of the fuel system and soaked it in a coffee can filled with e85 (sealed) for over a year and the only thing that swelled was the rubber gasket at the bottom of the fuel pump. It didn't grow that much, maybe 1/4"

MS is not needed, the poor man's method is to install 52pph CFI injectors and dial back the fuel pressure a little bit. Personally, I am running a $60 Moates chip with an 05+ MAF slot sensor and 85pph injectors with an LA3. Corrected dyno number (5,000ft dyno facility): 435hp 390 torque. 369hp at the wheels uncorrected at 22psi.

[MikeFleming]

Chris has also provided ignition timing maps and EEC MAF Conversion code for the Moates/EEC Tuner/QuarterHorse chips for E85 on his site:

www.rothfam.com/maf (http://www.rothfam.com/maf)

I you're considering using E85, then this is a Must Read.

[65ShelbyClone]

I was just curious. Has anyone ever converted and SVO to use e85? I heard it runs cleaner and cooler, is good for turbo cars in particular because of the lower exhaust temps so you gain some horsepower. I also heard gas mileage goes down about 15%, but it's also a little bit cheaper.

Any thoughts?

Forced induction engines like E85 partly due to it's high latent heat of vaporization, partly being able to burn more of it due to the lower stoich AFR, and a large portion comes from the 105 octane allowing much more boost and timing than pump gas. The injectors need to be about 50% larger than for gasoline, so a 2.3T equipped with 35lb injectors would need 52-53lb/hr with E85.

[cookin86]

That's awesome information everyone. Thanks for all the replies. Basically I didn't want to be the only guy to try it. It sounds like the benefits outweigh the risks. So I may do it after a little more research.

[Patrick]

One more thing...

The $1 per gallon federal subsidy for methanol production supposedly expired on January 1 2012. Check the prices on E-85 through the last year or two to see how this affects your decisions.

[MikeFleming]

The $1 per gallon federal subsidy for ethanol production supposedly expired on January 1 2012. Fixed.

[Patrick]

Fixed.


http://www.npr.org/2012/01/03/144605485/congress-ends-era-of-ethanol-subsidies

Not fixed per NPR. I will look further.

[65ShelbyClone]

All Mike did was change the "methanol" to "ethanol." Commercial methanol is, IIRC, manufactured from petroleum and has no subsidies.


It sounds like the benefits outweigh the risks.

Also be aware that the Department of Energy allows the ethanol percentage to vary seasonally from 70 to 85%. In practice, it varies like that more than just seasonally, so now you have two moving targets of octane and mixture. That's not a problem for FFVs because they have sensors that allow the ECU to precisely compensate. You won't have that luxury unless an aftermarket ECU with an ethanol sensor option is used.

[Laredo]

...MS is not needed...

True. But....I didn't say it was "needed" ;) It happened to be available, ready for install, and the price was right.

It's just one of many possible options out there that would allow adjustment of fuel/timing maps, among other "play things". You chose potOto, I chose potAto.

[Laredo]

...It sounds like the benefits outweigh the risks...

Don't sweat it!! Get a wideband and some parts, start playin' and havin' some fun! Lotsa folks here who have been there, done that.

[MikeFleming]

The biggest problem with high E-?? is in humid climates and the water absorption that occurs over time. Water content degrades the fuel so it won't keep for long - especially when stored in plastic or vented containers. The higher the actual ethanol content, the more water is a problem.

The second biggest problem is the high consumption rate - the need for a 30+ gallon tank.

[Laredo]

I have been running e85 for a few years in my SVO and turbo Ranger when I had it. I took every part of the fuel system and soaked it in a coffee can filled with e85 (sealed) for over a year and the only thing that swelled was the rubber gasket at the bottom of the fuel pump. It didn't grow that much, maybe 1/4"..

Ditto - it's pretty much harmless. I did E-85 pre-production field testing for GM Truck Division back in the 90's. After 50 to 100K miles, the only minor adverse affect encountered was some premature deterioration of the fuel pump brushes. Most any fuel pump you buy now is alcohol friendly. A lot states have a 10% ethanol mandate on all fuel.

[Laredo]

...The second biggest problem is the high consumption rate - the need for a 30+ gallon tank.

Yup - that part kinda sucks. Take current fuel tank range, subtract 30%, equals new fuel tank range.

[Patrick]

Commercial methanol is, IIRC, manufactured from petroleum and has no subsidies.

Do you have a reference source for that statement?

(The sprint car guys and Smokey told me that it came from corn)

[65ShelbyClone]

I think you may have ethanol and methanol mixed up.

Ethyl alcohol, aka ethanol, is what comes from fermentation (corn, sugar, etc) and has been subsidized as a fuel. It's the same alcohol as in beer, whiskey, and as mixed with gasoline, in E85. Methanol, aka methyl alcohol, aka wood alcohol, is a lighter alcohol originally derived from the high-temp distillation of wood-based product, sort of like turpentine. Methanol certainly does not come from corn...not in any commercially-viable quantities, anyway.

Although a bit old, this info from the Argonne National Laboratory is still relevant:

http://web.anl.gov/PCS/acsfuel/preprint%20archive/Files/41_3_ORLANDO_08-96_0880.pdf

Methanol synthesis from hydrocarbon sources (H2 and CO) has been around for ~90 years.

[Bob Holmes]

I agree with everything here except the statement about fuel pumps. Check with the vendor of your fuel pump to make certain that they are E-85 compatible. The one in our racecar came apart, and when we called the company about the problem, they stated that their pumps were not compatible. We currently use a Weldon, but I don't believe their entire line of pumps is compatible.

Again, just a warning to check with the manufacturer.

[Under Pressure]

Pure Gas.org. Just say No to ethanol! Many stations here sell non-ethanol gas. I got 8 gal. pure gas today at Valero $4.29. Better for everything fuel tank to combustion! More Power Scotty!