Exhaust manifold studs

[mrzw70]

Trying to get my motor back together and in the car. I went to install the new to me E6 manifold and the bolts I have to install are different. There are three bolts with threads on the top also for what I assume are used to mount something on them. I only have three like this and the others are normal bolts, it looks like I'm missing one too, as I only have seven total. Do the bolts that look like studs go to the back of the manifold by the turbo to mount a bracket? I didn't take the turbo off the car, it was bad and in the hatch when I bought it. I have another turbo now and would like to get the engine back in the car. Any help is appreciated.

[MikeFleming]

The four studs (you are missing one) go into the top (rearmost for each cylinder) holes. The rearmost one mounts the brace for the oil feed line while the front three mount the charge cooler bracket. Engines without the charge cooler only had one stud - the oil line support at the top rear.

The bolts are a high-temp material in 10x1.5mm x 55mm long. Standard hardware store 8.8 bolts will live for a year or so before they heat cycle to death - and they won't lock into the head like the original ones do.

I've not found any replacements for the stud ones.

[mrzw70]

Thanks Mike. I'm planning on running a FMIC so I don't really need the stud type bolt just another regular. Are the bolts for the 2.3T the same as those used in the 5.0 or the N/A 2.3? I don't plan on using a hardware store bolt, maybe a junkyard or maybe I'll order a new one.

[quikup]

what are those bolts made from?? non-magnetic stainless???

[mrzw70]

Not sure of the material but I'm sure they have had to have been heat treated.

[MikeFleming]

They are made of an austinitic air-hardening tool steel. The portion that stays in the water-cooled head can get to ~400F (most of the threads) while the bolt head part on the outside of the exhaust manifold can get to 1650F. Heat-treated (hardened) stuff would fail with all the re-heating & normalizing that normal engine operation involves and would not last very long. And only a portion of the bolt would be exposed to those temp extremes.

Not a good job for a typical carbon steel. A 300 series stainless would work, but not be as strong. I think Ford discontinued those fasteners long ago.

[mrzw70]

I did call a ford dealer and confirmed they have been discontinued. My only resource is now used, unfortunately my local yards do not have any turbo fords.

[TheSVOTrust]

Stud-Tite sells a M10 X 77mm stud that works for the one you will support the oil line on. They are $40 less than Ford specific ones for a 2.3 EFI T/C.


#29322


Mark

Seeing you haven't bought this from 4EP (nor a Turbo gasket) - you can PM your Name and Address.
I will send you a stud and a new gasket. (Many have helped me here - just passing it on)

Mark

[mrzw70]

That is a very generous offer but I would prefer to send some money via PayPal. It's not that I don't appreciate the gesture but I think there may be someone else who might need it more than me. I will PM you and we can maybe work something out. Thanks,
Mitchel.

[mrzw70]

Mark,
I got the package when I got home this evening. Thank you very much for the parts and the bonus stuff too.
I hope to get some time to install the stud and then get the turbo installed. Then I will reinstall the flywheel, clutch and transmission, so I can put it all back in the car. Post some pics when I get the engine back in the car.
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk133/mrzw70/75418401.jpg
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk133/mrzw70/1c24a61f.jpg
Frame rail done and in primer.
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk133/mrzw70/23284bfc.jpg

[TheSVOTrust]

Mark,
I got the package when I got home this evening. Thank you very much for the parts and the bonus stuff too.
I hope to get some time to install the stud and then get the turbo installed. Then I will reinstall the flywheel, clutch and transmission, so I can put it all back in the car. Post some pics when I get the engine back in the car.
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk133/mrzw70/75418401.jpg
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk133/mrzw70/1c24a61f.jpg
Frame rail done and in primer.
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk133/mrzw70/23284bfc.jpg

Great - Now everyone will want a package !

[mrzw70]

Frame rail before...
http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk133/mrzw70/658fa7ba.jpg

[ChrisCurtin]

Nice repair.

[Desert Patina]

The four studs (you are missing one) go into the top (rearmost for each cylinder) holes. The rearmost one mounts the brace for the oil feed line while the front three mount the charge cooler bracket. Engines without the charge cooler only had one stud - the oil line support at the top rear.

I'm missing the brackets you speak of, but I have the studs. Does anyone have pics that I can see what I'm missing?

I also seem to have studs at the top of the valve cover I'm sure were supposed to hold some kind of bracket, true or no?

[MikeFleming]

If you do not have or are not planning to refit the charge cooler bracket, then you only need the rear-most stud to mount the exhaust manifold. The turbo oil supply line brace goes on that stud with a high-temp locknut (10x1.5mm).

If you're installing the IC bracket, you'll need (4) of the studs and three of them mount the bracket (all top holes in the manifold). And three more high-temp locknuts.

The long bolts on the cam cover are used to mount the spark plug cable holders (a 4-position on the intake side, a 2-pos on the exhaust). The intake side goes in the second from the front hole while the exhaust one goes in the third from the front.

[Desert Patina]

Many thanks. Talking about the wire holders...

I also note there looks to be a bracket attached to the valve cover, on the exhaust side in the front held by a small bolt. On mine it looks hack-sawed, like it used to hold something.

On the exact opposite corner is another bracket, welded to the dipstick. Again that one is in the same condition, something hack-sawed off at the end.

My first reaction was those were the wire holders. But now I figure they are something else?

In possibly related news, does anyone have a coolant flow diagram? If it is part of the turbo manual or some other purchasable book, I'd be happy to just know where to find it.

Again, many thanks.

[MikeFleming]

The exhaust side support thingie with the bolt on the front of the cam cover mounts the coolant lines that run along the cam cover on the water-cooled CHRA versions, 85+ only.(unless retrofitted) . Study this:

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The coolant lines ran under the exhaust manifold on the 84 models - this is covered in the 2.3L EFI Turbocharged Engine Manual (available here: http://www.svocop.com/forum/showthread.php?841-Some-Things-For-Sale). For 85/86 with the coolant-fed CHRA (turbo center section), these assembly line diagrams will help"

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[Desert Patina]

I must say, I was reluctant to join but I am uniquely impressed with the efforts you all go to in order to answer these question.

Many, many thanks, and I am completely sold.

[TheSVOTrust]

I must say, I was reluctant to join but I am uniquely impressed with the efforts you all go to in order to answer these question.

Many, many thanks, and I am completely sold.

Mike is only helping because your car is red !

Mark
P.S. Because that car has a latter motor (intake at least) - the early bracket for the dip stick to the upper intake won't bolt up. (12mm vs 8mm head bolts) They cut the bracket. Does the car still have the fuel pump pulse dampener? That would be part of a the bracket too. Knowing what style is on the car helps with what was changed on the car over the years.

[MikeFleming]

Mike is only helping because your car is red ! That and I'm usually only helpful on even numbered days, depending on the timezone.

Here's some pics of stock engine compartments - 85.5/86 - that cover some of the above discussed areas (plug wires, coolant tubes & hoses). Note that one can't see the rear exhaust side of the spark plug cable holder with the charge cooler installed.

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[Desert Patina]

Thanks, these have all been a great help.

So the coolant lines that wrap around the back and go into a box in front of the oil filter, that is simply to cool the oil?

[MikeFleming]

So the coolant lines that wrap around the back and go into a box in front of the oil filter, that is simply to cool the oil? It is a coolant/oil heat exchanger.

When the engine is cold, the coolant will warm up faster than the engine oil so the heat exchanger brings the oil up to temp faster by heating it. As the engine runs longer, and harder the engine oil may get hotter than the coolant and the heat exchanger will then cool the oil (down to the coolant temp).

Note: An air-type oil cooler does not heat the cold engine oil when it is cold so it takes much longer for engine oil temp to reach operating level.

Remember that we want the engine oil temp to be high enough to boil out all condensed water and water vapors so it needs at least 210 degrees (assuming a slight vacuum in the crankcase) for 10+ minutes.

[Desert Patina]

I get it, nice explanation. Although that brings up the question whether the oil normally gets that hot even with the coolant lines hooked up, but that isn't important to me now :)

But even more important to me right now, I take it those lines also feed the coolant that goes through the intake?

I'm assuming coolant goes through the intake, but I don't know. That center channel between the intakes seem to be clogged up with wet red clay and small rocks right now. There are a number of sensors in that channel also.

I appreciate all the help. I'm working on a deadline of the end of the month to get this registered in Phoenix, and I'm admittedly nervous about anything that can impact emissions.

[Chalky]

The ECT (engine coolant temperature) and fan switch are housed there. If theyre covered in gunk, clean them. The ECT is important because it informs the ECU of the engines current temp. It will enrichen the fuel/air mix when cold like a choke on a carny does. So if it's dirty or faulty the car can run rich and will really ruin your fuel economy or any chance of passing emissions.

We all know what happens when the cooling fan stops working......

[MikeFleming]

[Relatively] cold coolant flows from the bottom/left side of the radiator into the water pump. Then it goes along the bottom of the engine past the cylinder bores to the rear of the block. Then it goes UP into the head, past the intake & exhaust ports and spark plugs to the front where the thermostat lives. At the top, rear (left side) of the block is the temp gauge sensor that feeds the dash gauge (or light).

The thermostat regulates, by coolant temp, how much coolant leaves the engine and goes to the top/right side of the radiator. As hot coolant leaves, an equal amount of [relatively] cold coolant comes back into the water pump.

Coming out of the cylinder head between intake ports 2 & 3 is a coolant passage that feeds coolant through the intake manifold. Top and center is the EECs coolant temp sensor (CT). Under the manifold along the same coolant passage are a couple more things: a cooling fan temp switch and a tap 3/8" hose bib that connects to one of the oil cooler tubes to allow coolant to flow out the head into the manifold. That area (the 3/8" restriction and hose) are a popular place for crud to accumulate.

Take the manifold and associated parts off and toss it into the blast cabinet to clean out that area. When it's clean, inspect for wall thickness loss to make sure corrosion hasn't make that casting non-serviceable.

When that coolant passage isn't flowing properly, weird things can happen with the EEC (thinking it's too cold for too long), the cooling fan won't come on, etc.

Why is there a time limit on registering the car? As long as it's not driven or parked on public roadways, Arizona does not care.