Help with brake and wheel bearing Parts Check...

[Desert Patina]

I posted this in another forum, and the good people on the Facebook SVO page said I absolutely must bring this here, I'll get a much better response. I apologize if I step over any rules, I am new to your country of Pat.

Hey, so here's the deal. I've recently picked up an SVO from the u-pull-it lot. Its now running, but needs some help to be road worthy. The biggest problem is that the brake pedal goes straight to the floor. We've figured it is actually both the master cylinder and the playful wheel bearings causing this (both have been identified as bad).

So, I'm replacing all the brake lines, front brake calipers, and master cylinder ... and replace the front wheel bearings ... and replace tie-rod inner ... and put in a power steering pump if there's time (the car is missing the p/s pump and the whole heater system).


After that works, it will be road worthy for the first time in untold ages.


If anyone can comment on their opinion on whether I got the right parts for an 1985 SVO in this list, I'd appreciate it. I did my best cross referencing the bore of the master cylinder, and the bearing size (according to Autozone at least). Also, I might be missing some possible needed parts?


Here's the list from Rock Auto (who doesn't always differentiate between SVO and Turbo GT parts)


A-1 CARDONE 206247F (20-6247F) (http://www.cardone.com/Products/Product-Detail?productId=206247&p=rock) Power Steering Pump (whats the deal with both with and without reservoirs? This one is with.
DORMAN 82582 Power Steering Reservoir Cap (what could possibly go wrong?)
MOOG EV117 (http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=202432) Tie Rod End inner, not SVO specific?
OHIO CALIPER 414344 (this one is at least specifically marked SVO, and no more information available)
WAGNER BH107278 (http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=905991) Middle Rear Brake Hose
CENTRIC 15061039 (150.61039) & 15061039 (150.61039) No picture but it says "Rear Disk; Front Right (and left)", Which I hope means "Hey, if this car has rear disk brakes, these are the hoses for the front" left and right included.
DORMAN H38369 (http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=964890) & H38370 (http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=964367) Rear Brake Hydraulic Hose (Right and Left)
CENTRIC 13061036 (130.61036) (http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=1622334) Master Cylinder (detailed info on this one, and I'm particularly worried about it but not worried if it is iron or aluminum)
CENTRIC 12161018 (121.61018 ) (http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=1280287) Front Rotors (5-lug, but is that enough?)
SKF BR12 (http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=1838806) Front Wheel Bearing (outer)
SKF BR5 (http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=1838196) Front Wheel Bearing (inner)




I already think I need wheel bearing seals, but missed getting them.

I wonder if I might need the bearing cups, or how I'd know if they are bad. I have access to a well stocked mechanics garage for this operation, so I'm sure they'll have a bearing cup puller.

Any information would be appreciated, I realize I'm not giving much (I really have little to go on myself -- but what could possible go wrong?!?)

[MikeFleming]

If anyone can comment on their opinion on whether I got the right parts for an 1985 SVO in this list, I'd appreciate it. I did my best cross referencing the bore of the master cylinder, and the bearing size (according to Autozone at least). Also, I might be missing some possible needed parts?


Here's the list from Rock Auto (who doesn't always differentiate between SVO and Turbo GT parts)


A-1 CARDONE 206247F (20-6247F) (http://www.cardone.com/Products/Product-Detail?productId=206247&p=rock) Power Steering Pump (whats the deal with both with and without reservoirs? This one is with.
DORMAN 82582 Power Steering Reservoir Cap (what could possibly go wrong?) Rockauto has about a 70% success rate. Unfortunately they may list items that are absolutely not correct for the SVO as options.

The reservoir is the plastic thingie on the back of the pump with associated attaching hardware (which is the check valve block and the rear o-ring). Without reservoir means less the plastic housing, associated o-ring and check valve. Get it with then there are no parts to swap over (sounds like you don't have parts to sway anyway). Do you have a 2-groove PS pulley and installer?

Caps are known to fall off. Besides you don't have one - right?


MOOG EV117 (http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=202432) Tie Rod End inner, not SVO specific?
OHIO CALIPER 414344 (this one is at least specifically marked SVO, and no more information available)
WAGNER BH107278 (http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=905991) Middle Rear Brake Hose
CENTRIC 15061039 (150.61039) & 15061039 (150.61039) No picture but it says "Rear Disk; Front Right (and left)", Which I hope means "Hey, if this car has rear disk brakes, these are the hoses for the front" left and right included.
DORMAN H38369 (http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=964890) & H38370 (http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=964367) Rear Brake Hydraulic Hose (Right and Left)
CENTRIC 13061036 (130.61036) (http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=1622334) Master Cylinder (detailed info on this one, and I'm particularly worried about it but not worried if it is iron or aluminum)
CENTRIC 12161018 (121.61018 ) (http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=1280287) Front Rotors (5-lug, but is that enough?)
SKF BR12 (http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=1838806) Front Wheel Bearing (outer)
SKF BR5 (http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/moreinfo.php?pk=1838196) Front Wheel Bearing (inner) We recently went to an autparts store just before the Knotts show to get front bearings for Mitch and 2 of the 5 parts were wrong, iirc. So order two of everything listed and return whatever you don't use. You get to pay for shipping though but at last you'll have all the possibilities they offer.

MC is 1.125" bore. Specific to the SVO (and the Lincoln it was borrowed from). Front calipers are very common and cheap. Be sure to get ones that list steel pistons. Both outer rear brake hoses are same on all SVOs. The center one is the difficult one to get right. No matter what you order (unless you order one of everything) you'll have abort a 30% chance of it being correct. Iirc both front hoses are same. The SVO is the only stang of that era that had 5-lug rotors, 10.91" iirc. The 4-lug GT rotors are smaller, 10.6" iirc. front calipers use a 73mm piston.


I already think I need wheel bearing seals, but missed getting them.

I wonder if I might need the bearing cups, or how I'd know if they are bad. I have access to a well stocked mechanics garage for this operation, so I'm sure they'll have a bearing cup puller. Yep. need seals. And grease. Until you remove the current caps, you'll not know their condition (flattened, punched through, rusted, ham-fisted workers, ugly, ...). Replace the cotter pins too.

The 85 will have the high-effort "Performance" Ford rack. The rack and inner rod ends are the same for all Mustangs with the Handling Pkg and SVOs. I think the SVO outer rods ends are different though.

Phoenix? I was there yesterday and this morning. 113 degrees. I waved too!

What else you need to know?

[Patrick]

Wheel bearing sets usually come with cups and cones.

LF and RF brake hose is not the same part, They are mirror images of one another, and a different part number at RockAuto, sho has several different manufacturers listed (Raybestos, Dorman, etc.).

"Front rotors, 5 lug" is the proper description.

Inner tie rod: what year is your car? if 84, you may just want to upgrade to the later steering rack that comes with tie rods..

If in doubt, cross check with the NAPA or O'Reilly's online catalogs. Funny thing, but the Motorcraft catalog returns the wrong part for brake rotors , but the AC Delco catalog is right on. Go figure!

[MikeFleming]

By "cap" we're referring to the grease cap that fits over the spindle adjusting nut, castellated nut cover and cotter pin. "Cup" and "Cone" refer to the two pieces of the bearings.

[TheSVOTrust]

Now you have found two good SVO sites where friends will help you !

Unfortunately GETTING BANNED won't mean anything (until you read all the jokes about SVOCA, the people here and "our fun we have" !

Mike (check my work - you say it with specifics)

So let me guess the brake are seized and you are thinking 'replace with anything" other than the old (correct stuff) on the car ?


I started to look at the aftermarket parts and just had to stop. You haven't been able to research the hundreds of differences in an SVO (and parts stores don't know)!


For example PS pumps are matched to the rack. We don't know if your car has the 20 to one or 15 to one rack (often changed in the life of car). OR .... for example that you have an alum master (sized for larger calipers).


Let us know how far you really get in one afternoon (what you describe is closer to 40 hours) If you mean - you can use the garage "in the afternoons" (to not be hot) then you may just want to FLUSH the fluids and get two steel pistons for the calibers so you can again asses the car. (we still don't know if the trans, rear CAR is ready for $400 of wrong front end parts)


Mark


Yeah (I know I can sound sarcastic - probably comes from years of not being listen to) BY MY WIFE ! lol


Thanks for posting more info. YOU have the abilities - so I guess I am trying to say BE PREPARED for things coming up that will throw you off. (off track/off time)


Internet diagnosis is hard as MOST don't give info or you have to wait till the next post (now this happened) to add to the aid.


Just keep us in the loop if you get stuck - most have been through it (MANY TIMES).


ME - I'm a "cave man mechanic" I tend to test , rather than replace things. (and then rebuild rather than replace). With a brake system - I too would rebuild (or replace if you choose) anything that old (for safety). BUT - blead back on the master may be due to frozen pistons (be prepared) or better yeah get a look in them, the proportioning valve or master (pretty nasty usually)


Anyway you will be fine. Even with miss matched racks (most wouldn't know the proper feel of the correct sets as MANY SVO got wrong parts when replaced.


That is why I wondered about the parts on the car. The confussion of the rack is this car is a 84 right?? (20 to 1 originally)


Seeing the "different engine" (and not hearing from you on the VIN) It may have the latter pump??:confused: OR If it got a rack in it's life (like many car) it could have a latter rack (and the early pump) Only way to tell is to get the codes off both.


Mark
P.S. Have you pinched off the brake booster vacuum to see of the master has pressure then?

Don't read this as "look at me" etc etc You show promise as being able to work on this car ! Mike (and us) will be the effort in. I only throw up my hands when corners get cut or wrong direction (when safety is compromised.

I can see the Phoenix road trip from Sturgis !

Mark

[Desert Patina]

Thanks. In fairness SVOTrust, the recommendation came before you posted there :). I need to digest this info more, but I wanted to say that quickly.

[TheSVOTrust]

HaHa

Don't worry Mike will find something wrong with me, my post or my driving next month ! AND I'll BE BANNED !!

Mark
P.S. DP - you are going to love this car when you get it out on the "beeline highway" !

[Desert Patina]

Inner tie rod: what year is your car? if 84, you may just want to upgrade to the later steering rack that comes with tie rods..

If in doubt, cross check with the NAPA or O'Reilly's online catalogs. Funny thing, but the Motorcraft catalog returns the wrong part for brake rotors , but the AC Delco catalog is right on. Go figure!

Its an 85 (not 85.5). I'll post pics from the car, its an interesting one.

For now here's the link to my description of the car and how I got possession of it the day after independence day...

http://vb.foureyedpride.com/showthread.php?t=135896

There's no doubt I want to upgrade to many things. As some have feared, for instance, my calipers I bought are the plastic piston kind. I hope it lasts at least a few months? For $35 though, its good enough to see if I can simply rebuild the other calipers (if they are worth it).

As for the wheel bearings, they match what Autozone says, but one of them doesn't match what NAPA says. I believe I'll buy them from NAPA to make sure I have both covered, and get the bearing seals at the same time.

[MikeFleming]

If it's an 85, it has a Ford rack (or rather it originally came with one). Only the 84 models had the TRW rack.

[Desert Patina]

NAPA lists two different inner bearings with slightly different sizes. Anyone have any experience with this?

http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx?R=BRGBR5_0073727121 with Wheel Bearing O.D. : 2.563"

And

http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx?R=BRGBR17_0247107117 with Wheel Bearing O.D. : 2.3612"

At a 1/5th of an inch difference, I imagine they are not really interchangeable. The former is the same as what I got from Rock Auto, and I didn't see Rock having an equivalent to the latter.

Same with the wheel seals...

Not complaining, just trying keeping the information open.

[MikeFleming]

Buy two of each and return what you do not use. Alterantely take the car apart & measure before you go collect the parts.

Then make notes (and post them here!) on what parts/numbers were correct.

[DaveS]

I've installed the following front wheel bearings on all my stock SVOs. No doubt in my mind they fit the stock configuration.

Timken SET5
Timken SET12
Timken 9150S

[Desert Patina]

Thanks Dave,

Well today was the day of proof. So far Rock Auto has rocked with everything I tried so far.

The bearings were spot on, except that the rotor already had the races included.

The hoses all fit, with only one caveat. The rear driver side brake hose lifts the steel line a bit more than it was previously. All it takes is a bigger line clip to accomodate the height (I didn't want to bend it that much). The overall difference is about a half an inch.

The Master Cylinder fit all the fittings and the booster.

The one thing I wish I did get that I didn't is a foam O that fits between the dust cover and the spindle. No idea how to source that one.

I started late, and ran about a half our out of time. All we missed doing was refilling the brake lines with fluid.

What we didn't get to yet ... we haven't installed the power steering or tie rod.

Thanks everyone for your help. I'll report back on those when they get installed.

[Chalky]

For the foam O, just some packing foam or felt and cut to suit.

[MikeFleming]

For the foam O, just some packing foam or felt and cut to suit. Or just remove the backing plates.