Accidental SVO

[dynoguy]

This is the story of my 86 SVO.
The car is the Accidental SVO because I accidentally bought it when I was visiting another shop in town. I popped in to the shop next door while I was there and well ... you know. Come to think of it there was also an accident in my truck that helped shape the project too. More on that later. I got it so cheap I'm embarrassed to tell you. Then the DMV decided to crap on my parade :mad:.

Now I have this SVO and I have to figure out what to do with it. I spent the afternoon troubleshooting the no start condition and had it running by the end of the day. Good so far. The test drive didn't go so well. There were all kinds of weird problems with this thing. I spent the next year and a half discovering a multitude of problems, at least half related to the previous owners mad wiring skills.100 ft of wire, 2 weak fuel pumps, a misguided electronic boost controller install and a box full of crap pulled off the car later, I had something to work with.

Once I sorted out the issues I started driving the thing on weekends and to work on the odd Friday. Everybody thought it odd that the 40 something year old dyno tuner guy was driving an old 4 cyl. My thought on that is "any dumbass can make 400 horsepower with a V8". I had it running pretty well and started carving up the back roads between Clayton and Brentwood. This was a lot of fun. I started making this drive at 6 am on Sundays to get a clear track..er road. I should have realized I was getting out of control when I started taking the 35 mph turns in 4th gear. Needless to say I had a real close call. Turns out at 45 years old I was still too immature to be driving this thing on the street. It was time to go back to the racetrack. After my wife got done rolling her eyes, I took it to a track day at Thunderhill.

The car ran pretty well. Turns out the suspension had been worked over by Maier Racing down in Hayward back in the day. It came with 800lb springs up front, 325lb out back with Koni yellows. Yes it was a bit rough on the street! The stock brakes completely sucked of course. After a few hard laps I had to cruise for a lap to cool them off, so all the guys i worked so hard to pass just cruised right on by. On the way home the car just didn't feel right. Just before getting on Interstate 5 for the 100 mile trip home I decided to pull over. The right front brake was stuck and the wheel was smoking hot. I pulled into Walmart and wandered around for an hour while it cooled off. Then I pulled it apart and beat the ever loving crap out of the caliper while squeezing the piston with a huge pair of Channel locks. No problem, just drive the 100 miles home with the e brake.

to be continued after I read the rules for posting images...

Chris

[86svo9l]

Sounds like an adventure! Time to get some new calipers and get that thing back on the track, most likely that caliper along with a few other issues could be causing the bad braking. The rear calipers can be real bastards if the car sat for any amount of time.

Post them pics up!

[Gyrhead]

Stay away from the stock Phenolic (plastic Bakelite) caliper pistons. Spring for the SS ones. I know Cardone rebuilds them and I've had decent luck with the. P/Ns 184151S and 184150S $23 each

[8T6 SVO]

Your not to far from me - back in the day, the only dyno tuner was in Walnut Creek. You know - a recurve of the distributor, rejetting the carb, etc.

I know the Clayton to Brentwood roads well...I'm from the east bay originally and am close? to your age. I have a hard time letting my foot up too - which is why I finally got traction control.

Keep up the stories and you might want to hook up with Bob Holmes (Mr. blow it up, turbo 4, bad boy) at Thunderhill.

[dynoguy]

Your not to far from me - back in the day, the only dyno tuner was in Walnut Creek. You know - a recurve of the distributor, rejetting the carb, etc.

I know the Clayton to Brentwood roads well...I'm from the east bay originally and am close? to your age. I have a hard time letting my foot up too - which is why I finally got traction control.

Keep up the stories and you might want to hook up with Bob Holmes (Mr. blow it up, turbo 4, bad boy) at Thunderhill.

I think it was called Reese's Supertune. I'm hoping to see Bob run at T Hill some day. I'll bet he does too!

Made some progress on the car today, Hope to update later.

Chris

[dynoguy]

So here is the car a while after I bought it. It doesn't look this good in person, its a true 30ft special.


12041205

Its up on the scales in these pictures. Here are the readings with 1/2 tank of gas. 1206
Just about as advertised. The car came with a Spearco FMIC and a Blitz BOV.

...

[dynoguy]

After the brake incident I did in fact get the rebuilt calipers with the steel pistons. Put in some Hawk HPS pads and new hoses too. Flushed out the brake fluid with some good stuff as well. The brakes performed better but still not up to snuff.
12071208Here are some shots from Thunderhill up in Willows CA. If you are not familiar it is a 3 mile road course owned by the Nor Cal SCCA. This track is fast, fun and doesn't have much to run into.

I had been having some oil leak issues so I put a check valve in the PCV system with good results. Car was fun but no where near fast enough to run with the "A" group (of course I'm probably not either).

I continued to tinker and even put on some full length sub frame connectors. As I pulled up the carpet prior to welding them in I discovered that the floor was already cracked by the driver seat. Speaking of the seat I sectioned the seat tracks about an inch at this time to get my helmet off the roof. I'm 6'4" tall. The car felt different with the sub frames connected. In fact I can see in the pictures about a degree more positive camber now that the chassis isn't as flexible :eek:.

This gets us fairly current. Next I decided that weight removal is the most affordable way to reduce lap times (well the easy stuff anyway). I pulled off the front bumper with the intention of making a new one out of aluminum channel. After doing some fab work at the shop one day I just happened to have a plasma cutter in my hand ... I laid out and cut a number of rectangular windows in the bumper. This resulted in an 11 pound reduction. It came out nice. In fact its still plenty strong enough to run on the street. Sorry but I can't find a picture of the bumper. I'll take a new pic soon.
1209Nose off for bumper reduction surgery. This is just about the time scope creep sets in.

As you may know during the holiday season Maximum Motorsports has a "deal of the day promotion". A certain part will be 20% or so off that day.
Here is the funny part. I can buy there stuff at wholesale any day of the year but I got caught up in the damn deal of the day. Its like a REALLY expensive game of Bingo. I'm fairly certain I'm not the only one who has drunk the Kool Aid on this deal.

more to come

Chris

[86svo9l]

Looks better than most SVO's I have seen, a new set of headlights and markers can go a long way in the looks department. Plus you are using it for its purpose. Good luck on all the upgrades and don't let scope creep take over this project.

[TheSVOTrust]

1979/80 Turbo Mustang Front Bumper support is all Alum.

Mark

[Gyrhead]

1979/80 Turbo Mustang Front Bumper support is all Alum.

Mark

Mark, if you can find em'. I use the Aero Mustang fiberglass ones. They're pretty light and by the time you get done butchering it up to make it fit the fascia, it's a lot lighter. If you do, wear gloves. Ask me how I know.

[dynoguy]

Mark, if you can find em'. I use the Aero Mustang fiberglass ones. They're pretty light and by the time you get done butchering it up to make it fit the fascia, it's a lot lighter. If you do, wear gloves. Ask me how I know.

I know about the Aluminum bumpers. That is where I got the idea for the aluminum channel. I know how fun bare fiberglass is - no thanks. For this round of mods the cut version will do fine.

This past weekend some progress was made. Saturday I unplugged the video games and got my 9 year old out in the garage to help pull the engine.

1213 leaving us with this 1214




On to Sunday I removed this 1215 to put in this 1216

Maximum Motorsports claims a 38lb weight loss from their k member and control arms. I measured exactly 40lbs difference on my scale. The other interesting thing I found was the front struts. They were Koni Orange but have been modified by ProParts. They now have a valve on the bottom.
I'll have to do a little research on these. I've already purchased the MM struts, coil over kits, 450 lb springs, caster/camber plates and LCA's for the car. I'm going with 3/4 forward for the time being. I need to trade my 94-95 spindles for some 96 + and I'm ready. At this juncture I need to make some decisions about how much time and effort and $ to pretty up the engine bay.

Sure have a bunch of old parts to trip over now. Just what I need more stuff in the garage.



Thats about it for now. Today I had to go to work to tune up Bubba's 47 Ford for Hot August Nights. Bubba's car below.

1217 1218

Bubba (yes his real name) had some high rpm fuel pressure issues so we stopped playing at 398 hp @ 5,000. Not bad for 10 psi on 7.5:1 compression.

Chris

[Bob Holmes]

Nice. As my buddy John Beck always says "Chicks dig blowers."

[dynoguy]

Nice. As my buddy John Beck always says "Chicks dig blowers."

Yes but the chicks didn't have to calibrate the dual Edelbrock carbs. Once past the Chevy in a Ford thing, I rather enjoyed it.

Chris

[8T6 SVO]

I think it was called Reese's Supertune. I'm hoping to see Bob run at T Hill some day. I'll bet he does too!

Made some progress on the car today, Hope to update later.

Chris

Yeah - Reese's Supertune - WOW - that was 30 years ago. I had a "Tri-Valley Machine" built, 289 shelby race motor with a ultradyne solid cam and he told me to "get rid of the cam". In a 75 Mustang II - the thing flew.

Nice to see that you're drinking the 2.3 kool aid. Keep it up and keep the pictures coming.

Greg

[dynoguy]

Greg,

Tri Valley is still there. We just had them re bush some spindles for a king pin job. They built many many hotrod motors back in the day.

I should have a short update soon. Family stuff is preventing much work this weekend. I hope to get some clean up done in the engine bay and then start seam welding the front rails and strut towers soon. I'm still going back and forth on the amount of cosmetic work to do in the engine bay. Also need to fit the MM K member and see how muck work its going to be to set the engine back a couple inches.

Chris

[MikeFleming]

Maximum Motorsports claims a 38lb weight loss from their k member and control arms. I measured exactly 40lbs difference on my scale. That's very interesting as the stock k-frame only weights 50 Lbs by itself. For me the MM frame with the rear brace, was 18 Lbs less than the stock SVO K-frame. There is more weight loss in the MM a-arms though.


I'm going with 3/4 forward for the time being. You know that the MM k-frame will move the a-arms )axle end point) forwards by 3/4" with the zero-offset arms, Yes? Adding the MM 3/4" offset a-arms to the MM frame moves the axle centerline forwards by 1.5" - you will have fender clearance issues with that.

Just be sure you plan for it.

[dynoguy]

Mike,

Doh forgot the brace.

I weighed the stocker complete with A arms (and a pound or to of dirt, grease and grime). I weighed the MM with the A arms on laying top. This was on a bathroom scale at home not a exactly a highly accurate piece. I'll have to truck all the parts including struts and springs down to the shop one day for a precise measurement of the whole set up.

Good point on the A arms. I made very sure to specify 3/4 total offset when I ordered the parts.

Chris

[dynoguy]

Sorry for the lack of progress guys. Almost out of the blue it appears that I may be moving soon.
God thinks its hilarious when we make plans...

Chris

[Bob Holmes]

God thinks its hilarious when we make plans...



I've come to the same conclusion.

[fess40]

Amen brother!

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

[dynoguy]

Ha, stole a couple hours for the car today. Scraped off some undercoating in the trans tunnel and loose fit the MM k member today. I think I/m going to drill a couple of 1/8th alignment holes thru the k member into the chassis. This way i can take it on and off without having to go through the whole alignment process every time. I nope to position the k and test fit the engine with 1 and 2 inch setbacks this week.

Stay boosted my friends,

Chris

[MikeFleming]

Iirc the standard MM k-frames have 0 and 1" back-set mounting slots in it.

On the alignment part - do it at least twice to make sure you get the same location. It's a very critical setting.

[dynoguy]

Iirc the standard MM k-frames have 0 and 1" back-set mounting slots in it.

On the alignment part - do it at least twice to make sure you get the same location. It's a very critical setting.

Mike,

You are correct on the set back. The 2 inch will require a custom offset motor mount. Question is how many new problems will that extra inch create?
The alignment will defiantly checked several times by multiple sets of eyeballs.

Chris

[Meotchh]

Mike,

You are correct on the set back. The 2 inch will require a custom offset motor mount. Question is how many new problems will that extra inch create?
Chris

1. Drive shaft will need to be custom cut & properly balanced.
2. Hole in floor for shifter will need to be opened up, or if you are creative enough you can cut out the stock opening & weld it back in 2" further back in the floor. That will require further patching of the floor.
3. Throttle linkages will require some changing.
4. Clearance between the head & the FW will pretty much not exist moving back 2"
5. Clearance between the DP & the FW will also require changes to the DP.
6. Exhaust mounting hangers move, so the exhaust will require some customization
7. Clutch cable mounting points will change but that is minor.
Bout all I can come up with right now.

[MikeFleming]

Even with only a 1" setback. MOST of these items will need to be addressed. Additionally the clearance between the bell housing and firewall/tunnel taper may get critical. If the tunnel area gets mod'd much then there may also be clearance issues with the heater box and other dash stuff. And it will get hotter inside.

And the car will handle completely differently - with more weight off the front axle and onto the rear. So select spring rates AFTER it's almost completed and corner weights are known.

Sounds like an interesting project though. Keep us posted and take lots of pics along the way.


1. Drive shaft will need to be custom cut & properly balanced.
2. Hole in floor for shifter will need to be opened up, or if you are creative enough you can cut out the stock opening & weld it back in 2" further back in the floor. That will require further patching of the floor.
3. Throttle linkages will require some changing.
4. Clearance between the head & the FW will pretty much not exist moving back 2"
5. Clearance between the DP & the FW will also require changes to the DP.
6. Exhaust mounting hangers move, so the exhaust will require some customization
7. Clutch cable mounting points will change but that is minor.
Bout all I can come up with right now.

[Bob Holmes]

Mines moved back more than 1".

1,2,4,&5 on Meotch's list were an issue. Only 5 took some effort, we clearanced the firewall to allow the DP to fit. Since the exhaust is custom, that was not an issue. all we had to do for the head to firewall clearance was to section of the pinch flange.

Hole in the floor for the shifter was easy. The tunnel has a plate for the shifter to stick through, I assume that the plate changes based on whether the car is an automatic or manual. I cut loose the spot welds, shifted the plate back and then persuaded it to take on the shape of the tunnel. I did not reweld it in, its held by 4 screws and some rivnuts.

Its a mock it up and go for it kind of modification.

[dynoguy]

Maybe I should post a picture of the interior :-}.

Good list Meotch.
This car is going to be a track toy/ occasional Saturday driver from here on out. I gets me in too much trouble driven on public roads with any regularity.

All of the items on the list are fairly easy to remedy. The drive shaft has to be custom and or shortened for any setback over a half inch or so. The shifter hole is looks easy enough as long as you keep it within a few inches, thanks BOB for tip on moving the plate, I was hoping that would work. Throttle body and linkage will be changed anyway. Clearance between head to firewall will require some minor surgery. Its only the first cut that is scary. I don't think the dash or heater box will be an issue as they are located on the parts shelf. Since it looks like I will have to move next month I should probably post some of this stuff in the for sale section soon. The measurements I took for the exhaust indicate a center mounted turbo should give me plenty of room.

Nobody picked up on what may be the crux of the matter. Will the accessories at the front of the motor mount up without brackets and such hitting the K member? Will there be enough room to keep the pulleys lined up? Hopefully Bob can comment on this. I can't remeber if his car used regular mounts or a motor plate. I want to move the alternator over where the A/C used to live anyway so why not make up something for the P/S while I'm at it.

Mike, yes my goal is to alter the weight distribution and center of mass etc. I'm going to start with the 450lb coil overs in front, 325 in back and go from there.

The current plan is to get the K member and front suspension installed so I can put the wheels and tires on to move it to our next home. The fun stuff is going to have to wait AGAIN.

Stay boosted my friends,

Chris

[dynoguy]

its a mock it up and go for it kind of modification.

That is a great way to put it Bob.

[Bob Holmes]

I'll look for a picture. Remind me, MM or Griggs or...K-member? Griggs requires you to section the oil pan to fit.

My alternator is on the driver's side, I have no PS pump.

[dynoguy]

Its a MM K member Bob.

Chris

[Bob Holmes]

Having a little trouble finding what I was looking for. Here is a very early mockup.

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q181/horsewidower/Mid%20build%20photos/P1000675.jpg

Here you can see the sectioning of the firewall.

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q181/horsewidower/Engine/P1030584.jpg

[Bob Holmes]

Here is where the alternator finally ended up:

http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q181/horsewidower/Engine/P1030045.jpg

[dynoguy]

1400
Thanks for the pics Bob. I can see where you have made some extra room near the passenger side frame rail at the firewall. I drew a red x in this location. Did you open up the area behind the cyl head at all? Below where I drew the red Y.

Are you also using the MM K?

stay boosted my friends,

Chris

[Bob Holmes]

The AI rules allow modification to the firewall for exhaust purposes (As usual they found my interpretation excessive, but this time they didn't rule me out), but not for engine setback. So yes, the x to the left is where we sectioned the firewall. But, no, Y is not allowed. I did remove the pinch weld at about Y. If I hadn't I wouldn't be able to remove the cam cover.

I run a Griggs. At the time, Griggs was winning everything. Today, I'd buy an MM.

By the way, DO NOT, solidly mount the engine. At least if you want all the fillings left in your teeth. The combination of solid mounts, no harmonic balancer and a 9 lb flywheel means one very buzzy beast. We're changing to either Chuck's polys or stock replacement and a torque limiter.

[dynoguy]

Ok the K member is in place.
Thanks to my wife for helping measure it 5 times.
I did drill a 3/16 hole on each side for alignment purposes in the future. I'm thinking of putting an aluminum rivet in the hole for quick visual inspection purposes.

I also installed the caster/camber plates. Still need to install the coil overs and struts and knuckles. I currently have the wrong (94-94) knuckles. I'm hoping to have time to find or trade for the correct 96 and up spindles before i need to move the car. We dropped the engine in for a quick test fit in the 1 inch set back position. Looks like the egr/water tubes need to be removed or eliminated. I thought it would fit doh.

Bob, thanks for the tip on the motor mounts. I was thinking of making them out of aluminum.

[blueboss]

Remind me, MM or Griggs or...K-member? Griggs requires you to section the oil pan to fit.

"section" is a kind word. If I remember the rant correctly, Griggs wants you to "whack your oil pan with a pipe or something" till the K-member fits.

And.....cue Mitch.....ready.....3...2..1.....




hundred posts.....ftw

[Meotchh]

"section" is a kind word. If I remember the rant correctly, Griggs wants you to "whack your oil pan with a pipe or something" till the K-member fits.

And.....cue Mitch.....ready.....3...2..1.....




hundred posts.....ftw

I hate you Scott! I was going to stay out of this but...

Simply put, don't waste your time with Griggs. He is an a-hole & only wants your money. Yes they told me to resolve my problem, "whack your oil pan with a pipe". Sorry wrong answer.

MM will tell you straight up what mods will need to happen if they have done it before themselves. If they have not, they will tell you that as well. MM will steer you right & they will stand behind their products. Nuff said.

[MikeFleming]

The FOX 5.0 L MM K-frame that I installed into my red car has at least 3 " clearance from any engine component (and oil pan) and the tube frame (except for the mount brackets!). LOTS of clearance. And lots of free room around the starter motor.

[dynoguy]

Actually I know Bruce. A mutual friend introduced us while I was fine tuning a customers car at a Sears Point test day. We did a few laps in his red demo car. After the day was over he invited me back to his shop and we talked for hours. I have visited several other times prior to them moving out of the track and into town.

I like and respect the man. I found him to be quite intelligent and down to earth. I'm sorry if you had a bad experience with his company but please lets not make personal comments here (in my thread at least). That being said, as I mentioned earlier I purchased the MM products for my car as I feel their foxbody components are superior.

[Meotchh]

Actually I know Bruce. A mutual friend introduced us while I was fine tuning a customers car at a Sears Point test day. We did a few laps in his red demo car. After the day was over he invited me back to his shop and we talked for hours. I have visited several other times prior to them moving out of the track and into town.

I like and respect the man. I found him to be quite intelligent and down to earth. I'm sorry if you had a bad experience with his company but please lets not make personal comments here (in my thread at least). That being said, as I mentioned earlier I purchased the MM products for my car as I feel their foxbody components are superior.


Not trying to take over your thread Chris, just responding to it. If anyone wants feedback from those vendor experiences I'll gladly respond offline. I do agree with you Chris that MM foxbody components are superior.

[Raven855]

Mike, could you show us some pics of the red car? Specifically the tire to fender clearance with the MM K member and their standard control arms? A pic of the firewall and engine clearance would be nice too. If I remember you used the 1" setback on the engine, didn't you?

[MikeFleming]

More red car pics? Someting to work on over the coming weekend.

I used the standard engine mounting location. I briefly looked at using the 1" rearward holes but I'd already had my fill with scope creep - and adding that wasn't going to meet my time table.

[dynoguy]

Not trying to take over your thread Chris, just responding to it. If anyone wants feedback from those vendor experiences I'll gladly respond offline. I do agree with you Chris that MM foxbody components are superior.

Its all good.

Don't you have a picture of a fabulous header you had made? That would be a fine addition to this thread!

[Meotchh]

It is a Kooks header. Aparently they aren't making it any more from what I have been told.

Mock up on spare engine.
15201523

External WG added to the header. It was intended to be used in a stock location with a stock sized turbo using an internal WG.
1521

As you can see we had a clearance issue...
1522

Clearance issue resolved tahnks to Tim at A1 Muffler in Jonseboro, GA
1524

[MikeFleming]

Mike, could you show us some pics of the red car? Specifically the tire to fender clearance with the MM K member and their standard control arms? A pic of the firewall and engine clearance would be nice too. If I remember you used the 1" setback on the engine, didn't you? Here's a small assortment of the red car with the MM k-member and the zero (standard) offset front a-arms installed in various configurations. The ACT mesh wheels are an 16x8.5 with 245/45-16 (now living in Chalky's garage). The white ones are 17x8 43mm offset with 245/40-17.

If you look for it, you can clearly see that the centerline of the wheel/tire is forward in the wheel well opening.

I'll work on engine/cam cover to firewall pics later - it's the same as a stock installation though.

1534
1536
1535
1527
1533
1532
1531
1530
1529
1528

[Chalky]

Actually the ACT's now live on my Calypso '93 LX coupe and look bitchin'!!!! BTW, did you have PBR calipers and the 11" rotors on with the ACT's before going to the 13" Cobra's?? What did you think of them??

[MikeFleming]

I went through several stages of assembly and testing after getting the car back from paint. If you recall, it had no interior, brakes, electrical, brackets, glass, steering, etc. on it when it returned form the paint shop. So I stayed with as many "Known Good" configurations during the initial assembly and testing phases.

Initially I had the PBR 11" with dual-piston calipers installed that came with the sn95 spindles (and only had 16" wheels then also). Same for the engine - used a TC top-mount charge cooler initially with the VAM to get things running.

Then I did the front suspension stuff with larger rotors/calipers/wheels. Then the rear suspension, brakes, diff, rear coil-overs, etc. Then the MAF conversion with larger injectors. Then the side-mount charge cooler and associated brackets and tubes. Somewhere in-between was a trip to the upholstery shop and other assorted stuff. And the exhaust system changes.

Get it running, change one thing, troubleshoot, fix. Add the next thing, lather, rinse, repeat.

Remember I got the chassis back from paint in early October, 2005 and it was collecting trophies at car shows by February. That was a busy couple months.

Long live Red.

[dynoguy]

Thanks for posting the pics of the header. I called Kooks after talking to you about it on the other site. They said they don't make it but could do up a custom header for about a grand.

Mike, that is a VERY nice SVO. Gives me something to shoot for. My favorite color too.

Hope to have a progress report this weekend.

[Meotchh]

That header is nicely built, but not for a grand. For that price I would go talk to Bo. I'm still a little surprised they no longer have the jig to build that header. Never heard of someone tossing a perfectly useful jig like that. I guess they just didn't have anough requests for the header. I know it was initially designed to mount in a Merkur using the stock turbo & internal WG.

[Bob Holmes]

Its a pretty simple header. I'm surprised that they want that much.

[8T6 SVO]

Greg,

Tri Valley is still there. We just had them re bush some spindles for a king pin job. They built many many hotrod motors back in the day.

Chris

Tom was the big guy and the other short guy - blond hair going bald - I forget his name. Those were the two guys I dealt with, I think they were both owners, there may have been a third guy? Am I right?

Sorry to have taken a month to respond and ask stupid memory lane questions on your thread.

[brsvo]

Mike how many miles are on your SVO since the completion? (More specificly the header) When did you complete it? Do you know what gauge the header is?

[MikeFleming]

^
You talking to me??

The completed car has about 1200 miles since the restoration.

The header was purchased from Rod sometime in 2000 or 2001, iirc (it's a stock location unit, btw). The tube walls are EXTREMELY thick, in the 0.120+" range in a 300 series SS. The welds went through into the inside too much and left huge ridges inside the tubes (I have some pics somewhere). Then when the car was down for the restoration, I sent the header to my local porter to clean up the inside and back top Rod to fix the stud mounting issues (long story).

In any case there is A LOT of work in that particular piece with the tube porting and the EGT bung.

AFAIK Rod is not making these anymore.

If I have more time tomorrow (need to get back to the shop to fic some things I broke earlier!) I'll post a collection of historical header pics.

[SVOC]

Tomorrow, I'll post a collection of historical header pics.


It's tomorrow :stick_poke:

[MikeFleming]

It's tomorrow :stick_poke: Technically Yes. However it's also a race weekend, Suzuka, and my timezones are seriously messed up.

[Patrick]

It's Monday in Suzuka.

[MikeFleming]

It's Monday in Suzuka. Then I won't be home until Tuesday.

[MikeFleming]

Circa January, 2003. This is what it looked like when I first received it and it's easy to see it needs some work. Here's my notes from the initial inspection (and a few assorted poor-quality pictures):

01/30/2003

Header Photo Captions:

1) The first thing I noticed was the severe mis-alignment of the studs to the turbo mounting flange surface. Looks like the holes were drilled and tapped before welding and final surfacing.

2) Closer pic of a right-angle reference and one stud showing gap at top. All studs are parallel to each other.

3) Far side studs, showing gap at bottom. QC issue.

4) Bottom view.

5) Top rear view showing EGR fitting.

6) Top view. Ignore those parts in the background.

7) #4 tube inlet. Out-of-round inlets, very rough inside.

8) Close-up of tube inlet.

9) Shows (blurry) weld flash inside of tubes.

10) Collector view. "Figure 8" shape follows tube ends.

11) Compressed stock TO-3 gasket. Questionable ability for flange to compress sealing ridges. Note that header comes with 3/8 inch studs and gasket is designed for 10mm studs. Header did not come with this gasket.

12) Stock TO-3 gasket versus wider header gasket from Precision Engine. Both compressed.

13) Another pic of the two turbo gaskets, stock on top.

14) Outlet flange with larger gasket. This one will seal.

15) Test fit of turbine housing. Need two short and two long studs as studs are too long for top. Bottom studs have the thicker (87+) support bracket to take up slack. Nuts on bottom are finger-tight.

16) Still too long with two washers installed. Nuts are finger-tight and gasket isn't held yet on top.

17) Shows the flange thickness variation that probably contributed to the stud mis-alignment.

18) Different angle.

19) View of internal tube (#4). All tubes have these serious weld protrusions on tube inside. Note tube seam line.

20) Tube 3 and collector view.

21) Tube #2 and collector. This needs a trip to the porter to clean up the inside of the tubes.

22) Where the header is destined to live, ready for test fitting. All brackets removed.

23) Tools. 8mm internal hex Allen-head bolts supplied with header.

24) First test fit w/o turbine housing .All ancillaries are out of the way.

25) Bolt hole needs clearance over the #2 port for the 86 A/C bracket mount. 84/85 use the bolt hole over #1 tube. Marked area to grind with black marker.
16941695169616971698169917001701

[MikeFleming]

Some [poor quality] pics after repairs and porting.
1702170317041705170617071708

[MikeFleming]

Some more [high quality] pics after latest cleanup and EGT port addition. This is how it looks today on the red car.
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[Bob Holmes]

Mike, didn't realize that you were running an EGT probe.

Have you ever instrumented and measured backpressure.

[MikeFleming]

Not on any vehicle-installed engines. That kind of data collection would be rather useless on a street car as it's almost impossible to keep load steady for any reliable period of time. Not to mention correlating data with variables such as ambient temps, baro pressure, humidity, [length of] running time, ...

When I worked at Garrett doing dyno durability testing (the turbos, not the engines!), we had individual port temp probes, collector temp & pressure probes, turbine inlet/outlet temp probes and pressure probes, etc. Additionally we'd measure inlet temp and pressure and calculate turbine inlet pressure/manifold pressures (typically ~2:1 iirc). In an environmentally-stable rooms where we could run engines under a steady load for hours at a time.

Ahh, the good old days.

[brsvo]

Yea Mike I only thought I was talking to you! I also thought the Kooks header was on you car!

[MikeFleming]

I currently have an early version of Rod's Header. Many moons age I tested several "beta" flavors of headers from Harry Hruska - the design that eventually turned into the ATP header. Unfortunately i don't have any good pics from that era.

Need to get some parts for the time machine.

[Bob Holmes]

Alright Mr. Peabody...

[MikeFleming]

I could sell rides!

[dynoguy]

Hi guys.
I posted earlier that it looked like i was going to have to move. Its happening this weekend.
We are going from a mini farm to a ... condo! At least it has a 2 car garage. As you can imagine this has taken up most of my time in recent weeks.
The good news is the MM front suspension is in the car and the wheels go back on tomorrow so it can be towed to our new place.
I will put up some pics and update the thread after we get settled.

[MikeFleming]

Congrats on the garage!!

We'll be here when you're done moving.