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Thread: 1986 SVO Mustang Return to Service

  1. #21
    Building Boost
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    You are a great American!

    So, I removed the cap and had my wife try to turn it over, and the rotor does not move...well, it does, it kinds jerks back and forth 1/2 of an inch and that is all. So, I guess I need a new dizzy? I will pull it when I get back from the kids karate.

  2. #22
    Red Captain MikeFleming's Avatar
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    Yeah, pull it pout and inspect the driven gear. Suspect missing teeth. Also look down in the hole the dist shaft goes into and see if you can see how damaged the auxiliary shaft gear is. Those drive/driven gears usually die in sets.

    If those gears look OK, pull the front timing belt cover and inspect the belt.

    You, uhh, got a cooler in the garage?
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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeFleming View Post
    Yeah, pull it pout and inspect the driven gear. Suspect missing teeth. Also look down in the hole the dist shaft goes into and see if you can see how damaged the auxiliary shaft gear is. Those drive/driven gears usually die in sets.

    If those gears look OK, pull the front timing belt cover and inspect the belt.

    You, uhh, got a cooler in the garage?
    Like a beer cooler? No, not yet...when my new house is finished being built it is getting a beer fridge in the garage (have the fridge already) but I have to wait 6 months or however long it takes to build a house.

    If you mean is it cooler in my garage than the 100 degrees it is outside...the answer is no

    I also suspect that it ate the gear. The problem that I have is that the dizzy is brand new, but I guess that doesn't matter to the fact that it appears to be kaput. It is a reman motorcraft unit and the gear was replaced at the same time.

    The timing belt is fine. There is no cover on the timing belt because apparently it will not fit over the Esslinger pulleys. Either way, the timing belt is intact 100%, and the oil pump does not appear to be binding. I suppose it could have been poorly remanufactured. The rebuild on the motor was just completed on the 20th of last month, but I suppose it could have been poorly done. I don't know the mechanic, it is a shop in Oregon.

    Update: 8:38PM Texas Time: Pulled the dizzy. Gear is...well, actually it isn't, and that is the problem. I am going to have to pull the other gear, but looking at it I am assuming that means removing the oil pump, and I am not up for that tonight. I am wondering if I should replace the oil pump at the same time. It is brand new, and it doesn't appear to be seized, but I know that something had to have caused this very premature failure.

    Last edited by brotharon; 08-08-2019 at 05:42 PM. Reason: add picture

  4. #24
    Red Captain MikeFleming's Avatar
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    Yep - that gear is gone. We used to be able to get replacement dizzy gears in the parts stores but I haven't looked for one in decades. Esslinger used to make a bronze driven gear (now sold by Race Engineering) that fits out dizzys with some mods (I thknki I posted pics of that) . I would also replace the aux shaft (mating drive gear). I have new ones in the shop if you can't locate one locally. Reman dizzys usually don't install new gears.

    If you have a long 8mm 1/4-drive socket and extension, you can manually turn the oil pump through the dizzy hole. If it's smooth in rotation (load will increase as oil pressure builds) it's probably good. Dont spin it too fast as oil will come out hte dizzy shaft hole and may make a mess on the floor.

    The aux shaft comes out the front with no need to pull the oil pump. The aux shaft gets its rotation from the cam belt, the aux shaft gear then turns the dizzy shaft via its driven gear whole the same dizzy shaft turns the oil pump. They all cousins, so to speak.

    Be sure to change the engine oil after the repairs are done - BEFORE starting the engine. Inspect the waste oil looking for gear chunks. If you see many, pull the pan to clean out the sump and clean (or replace!) the oil pump pickup screen.

    I was asking/suggesting that you install an evap cooler in the garage. Around here (except during our monsoon season) it drops shop temp by 40 degrees.
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  5. #25
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    I intend to put an ac system in the garage. It is too humid here in Houston for a swamp cooler, but for sure cooler air is very important when you are spending significant time in the garage.

    It looks like rock auto has the gear as well as the dizzy.

  6. #26
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    Ok, I need some advice here. I have looked for how to pull the aux shaft info, and it all says "pull out the aux shaft"...which is super helpful, but I have the pulley off, I have the 3 bolts (8mm) out, I have the timing belt plastic cover off, and it will not budge. Do I need a puller to get this thing out of the engine? All of the stuff I am seeing it sounds like people just yank it out, but I do not want to start hammering on it or try to pry it out and wind up doing a bunch of damage.

  7. #27
    Red Captain MikeFleming's Avatar
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    Take the cover off (seal holder that's retained by the three bolts). Then loosen the two Posi-Drive screws (close to a #4 Phillips) and remove the retaining plate. Then the aux shaft will, accounting for the two bearing shells in the block, pull out with some guidance. Must pull almost perfectly in-line with the bearing bores.

    Img_4258.jpgImg_4260.jpgImg_4263.jpgImg_4264.jpg
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  8. #28
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    Ok, I got it off. The previous person to work on this had been so kind as to use the wrong fasteners to attach it and then ground the heads off of the hex bolts that had been used so that the cover could fit over these incorrect bolts.

    I fixed the melted/damaged wires that ran to the TPS. I found a couple of connectors that do not seem to have a home, but I would like them to have one, in the process of cleaning up/repairing/sleeving/soldering the wiring. I am hoping that someone might know what the heck these are or where they are supposed to go to. The connector is on the same circuit (at least in my car) as the TPS.



    Last edited by brotharon; 08-11-2019 at 12:50 PM. Reason: My computer keeps locking up and I hate retyping over and over

  9. #29
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    I figured it out, i think. I believe it is a connector for the coolant temp sensor, but there is already a connector attached to the coolant temp sensor. I am guessing that someone added one in at some point for some reason I have yet to determine.

  10. #30
    Red Captain MikeFleming's Avatar
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    Do you have a connector on the knock sensor (Rear of lower intake, pointing rearward)?? I don't think they're the same though but I don;t have a car handy to reference. But I do have pictures. Tomorrow.
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  11. #31
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    Yes, I believe that I do. Car is at home, but I am certain that I checked there. I looked at the connector and it looks exactly like the connector that is already attached to the coolant temp sensor on the intake manifold. I dont know why someone would have spliced a second one in, but it appears to be the case. I am seriously concerned about the quality of work being done at the shop that allegedly did the engine "rebuild" on this car last month. I do not think that a respectable shop would have had sensor plugs spliced into the wiring by just twisting the wires together and wrapping in electrical tape. Maybe I am wrong and this is the industry standard, but it seems odd to me that the car basically went from the place I bought it, to the shop for the engine rebuild, and then to me and it arrived in this condition. Not saying I am not willing or able to take care of it. I actually pulled the harness with these sensors, fixed it all up, properly soldered the connections, and put it back, but I assumed that the second connector was needed for something, and now I believe it does not. I really want to be sure before I delete the second plug, but I can do that when I get home today.

    I am also going to need to fix up the wiring for the horns and lights. It is a rats nest that has been all electrical taped together as well. I want to figure out why my passenger inner marker light sometimes doesn't come on, but if I tap the light it suddenly lights up. I am guessing it is a ground issue.

  12. #32
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    So, I have been looking over the wiring diagram that I got for the car. I am still doing due diligence to make sure I know what the heck that connector is before I take action on it. I mentioned before that I was having an issue with the inner marker light on the passenger side. It will come on sometimes and others it wont, but tapping on it will make it come on. I got to looking at the wiring diagram and I am wondering if the ground is insufficient for the circuit. It looks like all of the lighting on each side was spliced to a single ground wire. I haven't looked at the ground truth wiring that is in the car, but it seems to me that making a dedicated ground for each light would possibly be a viable solution for my lighting woes.
    I am basically making plans for things I want to get to, and creating lists of (and ordering) parts to do the repairs because it is too hot to actually do the work...I dont know what this weather is all about, but I am opposed to working in my garage while it is 85% humidity and 105 degrees...I dont remember it being this hot in Iraq...

  13. #33
    Red Captain MikeFleming's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brotharon View Post
    So, I have been looking over the wiring diagram that I got for the car. I am still doing due diligence to make sure I know what the heck that connector is before I take action on it.
    NEVER remove anything unless it's a severe weight penalty. And this is not.


    I mentioned before that I was having an issue with the inner marker light on the passenger side. It will come on sometimes and others it wont, but tapping on it will make it come on. I got to looking at the wiring diagram and I am wondering if the ground is insufficient for the circuit. It looks like all of the lighting on each side was spliced to a single ground wire. I haven't looked at the ground truth wiring that is in the car, but it seems to me that making a dedicated ground for each light would possibly be a viable solution for my lighting woes.
    Yes, all the lights on each side (two side markers, rurn signals, headlight, foglamp) come to one, VERY SMALL ground connection. Find where the individual wires come together and install a 12Ga wire there and run it to the ground screw on the radiator core support. IIRC I posted pics on doing this to the Red Baron.


    [/QUOTE] but I am opposed to working in my garage while it is 85% humidity and 105 degrees...I dont remember it being this hot in Iraq...[/QUOTE] Your memory is slipping. And, iirc, most of Iraq is very dry. Like Tucson.

    I have several projects and parts to install to the Tesla. Need a cooler in the shop (for after the monsoon season passes).
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  14. #34
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    My thoughts exactly. I dont see any reason to remove a connector that isnt hurting anybody. I will just zip tie it out of the way so if I need it later I have it.

    You probably did post pics of you doing that on the Red Baron. I can only look at pics on my home computer. The server here at work blocks embedded images on websites unless I go out of my way to VPN around it, and I try not to do that unless I need something for my job. Dont want to get in trouble just to see a ground wire! I was pretty sure that it was a grounding issue, and seeing the wiring diagram it made sense that if all those lights ran to one wire it was likely to be insufficient grounding was the issue.

    I didnt know that they made parts for Teslas. I have heard horror stories from my coworkers who own Teslas about their cars being in the shop for months waiting on parts to come in due to some national shortages. Not to say that they dont love their cars, they do...I just dont need to get good fuel economy since I only live 5 miles or so from my office and 3 miles from my lab so I drive a new Ram Rebel 1500 Crew Cab for a commuter car!

  15. #35
    Red Captain MikeFleming's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brotharon View Post
    I was pretty sure that it was a grounding issue, and seeing the wiring diagram it made sense that if all those lights ran to one wire it was likely to be insufficient grounding was the issue.
    It's more of a problem with age AND folks installing much higher amperage head and fog lamps. The the five wires (turn signals, markers, headlight, fog) that come into one are merely a mechanical crimp. THAT needs to get fixed when you tie in a larger wire to the core support ground lig. And clean the paint off first (and use star washers).

    I didnt know that they made parts for Teslas. I have heard horror stories from my coworkers who own Teslas about their cars being in the shop for months waiting on parts to come in due to some national shortages. Not to say that they dont love their cars, they do...I just dont need to get good fuel economy since I only live 5 miles or so from my office and 3 miles from my lab so I drive a new Ram Rebel 1500 Crew Cab for a commuter car!
    "They" don't usually make parts fo Tesla outside of the usual stuff: wheels, suspension springs, etc., And getting spare parts from Tesla is like raising the Titanic.

    I have a set (of four) wheel hubs with double ceramic bearings in them that I want to install and test. I've been trying to get spare axle nuts and hub bolts for 7+ months now form Tesla and still have no idea if/when I will/may have them. Worse than annoying.
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  16. #36
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    Oh, i see. I thought maybe you had the inside track on some Tesla parts and I was gonna send my coworkers your way...lol

    I got to taking the gear off of the dizzy from the SVO and it was seized on real bad. Seemed odd for a recently rebuilt distributor. I got to looking at it more closely and the gear wasnt on straight. I dont know how to describe it, but it was a little lopsided. Anyway, when I got the pin out and took the gear off (wasnt easy, it was stuck on really hard) I found that one of the pinholes was elongated and the gear had been kinda driven on at a slight angle. Not saying that this is what caused the very premature failure...but I mean, it could have...right?


  17. #37
    Red Captain MikeFleming's Avatar
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    There should be *some* interference fit, but it has only taken light tapping on the shaft to remove the gear on all 2.3L OHC dizzys I have taken apart. Eventually the pin hole will get out-of-round and the only solution there is to drill a larger hole. And that has its limits before the shaft needs replacement.

    That one doesn't look too bad though. I would use a new pin with a new gear and new aux shaft .
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  18. #38
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    I will take another look at it. I just dont want to put it back together and have it blow up another gear after less than 100 miles. I suppose it could have been that they did not replace both gears at the same time, but I am just wanting to be able to drive my car more than 20 miles between break downs. 22 miles would be excellent!

  19. #39
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    Ok, I had already ordered the replacement distributor from Rock Auto. I am going to swap the gear out on the old distributor with a new gear that I bought. I am going to replace the aux drive gear as well at the same time. If everything goes well I will just return the reman unit I ordered and only be out shipping, but if it goes less than favorably I will have a new reman distributor on hand to put in there. I suppose this is an ok plan since I have outs, and I learned from poker to always have outs or fold...

  20. #40
    Red Captain MikeFleming's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brotharon View Post
    ...and I learned from poker to always have outs or fold...
    Or a yuuuge pile of money that you're not particularly attached to.
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