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Thread: trials and tribulations of the 84s

  1. #21
    Building Boost Alex L's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SVOTim View Post
    doubtful, but I got him thinking.
    uh huh, thinking 'wow, sure is nice when it starts up every time'
    "radar detectors are illegal in the Commonwealth of Virgina" "i bet cloaking devices are illegal too! good-bye!"

  2. #22
    Building Boost Alex L's Avatar
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    well, it lives on the megasquirt. just got a few little things to tidy up tomorrow: fan control 'noid was hooked up to ground and not 12v power, and had to pull apart part of the pretty harness. once i got the injector offset figured out (woooo wee, those 83lbers are finicky) squared, it fired right up. after a bit of warm up to 150, kicked on VE live, and it settled down into a clean idle @ 1000rpm after a few minutes of adjustment.

    time for a celebratory beer.
    "radar detectors are illegal in the Commonwealth of Virgina" "i bet cloaking devices are illegal too! good-bye!"

  3. #23
    Moderator Bob Holmes's Avatar
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    Enough of that, it was giving me a headache.

  4. #24
    Building Boost Alex L's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Holmes View Post
    premature thumbs up. got the low end of the ve table all nice and purdy like, but ive got a nagging issue of a jumping tach under load @ 3500rpm+. engine doesn't change behavior, tach just gets all jumpy and bounces up to 5000rpm. beyond that, it drives like a DREAM; got a bit of a stumble off idle when its under 150 ECT; not to worried about it, as im just using base RPMdot/MAPdot enrichment while getting the base steady state maps dialed in, and not the wall wetting EAE erichment. that comes later.

    think i might remove the TFI completely and run the PIP signal back on its existing harness, and just move the SPOUT over to the coil and drive it directly from the MS3. one less thing to worry about going wonkey. (and more spare parts for the wife's 84)

    yeah, teach me to tape the harness back up once it passes the subdivision drive test. :facepalm:
    "radar detectors are illegal in the Commonwealth of Virgina" "i bet cloaking devices are illegal too! good-bye!"

  5. #25
    Building Boost Alex L's Avatar
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    jayme's 84 got us down and back from the lousville auto-x last weekend with only one emergency repair in grid (blown BCS hose).

    as for mine, change of direction. after re-re-discovering that ive got an underlying spark scatter issue, and endlessly putting off the inevitable, time to quit screwing around. overnighted a bunch of go-fast goodies today and should be up and running wens, with a few days to get stuff dialed in before the auto-x school next weekend.

    dizzy going bye-bye, replaced with a EDIS CPS stub and a 36-1 crank wheel.
    later duraspark/TFI, hello LS2/Truck full sequential coil near plug.
    sayonara, omghuge 83pph injectors, ohayo FAST 60pph hi-z full sequential injection.

    was saving my pennies up for getting both the rear ends rebuilt and getting a turbo built by charlie to replace the he341, but that'll have to wait till winter.

    in other news, dad just got his lift installed, so i can fix a few lingering exhaust and transmission issues as well.
    "radar detectors are illegal in the Commonwealth of Virgina" "i bet cloaking devices are illegal too! good-bye!"

  6. #26
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    (aka Anonymous) Club Member Patrick's Avatar


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    Quote Originally Posted by SVOTim View Post
    Funny you mention Dave, I've got him scratching head last week about modifiying his SVO.... doubtful, but I got him thinking.

    What makes you think that he is thinking about modifying hisSVO?
    "Just leave me alone. I know what to do" (Kimi)

  7. #27
    Half Boost Raven855's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex L View Post
    well, it lives on the megasquirt. just got a few little things to tidy up tomorrow: fan control 'noid was hooked up to ground and not 12v power, and had to pull apart part of the pretty harness. once i got the injector offset figured out (woooo wee, those 83lbers are finicky) squared, it fired right up. after a bit of warm up to 150, kicked on VE live, and it settled down into a clean idle @ 1000rpm after a few minutes of adjustment.

    time for a celebratory beer.
    What did you do on the injectors? From what I have read, if you use the defaults it won't tune idle. How many squirts,4? And with an idle pw of ? How about offset? And peak and hold times?

  8. #28
    Building Boost Alex L's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raven855 View Post
    What did you do on the injectors?
    put them on the shelf.

    From what I have read, if you use the defaults it won't tune idle. How many squirts,4? And with an idle pw of ? How about offset? And peak and hold times?
    it would work with 2 squirts, or 4 squirts simultaneous, but 2 idled much better. either way, injectors were too big, and the idle pulsewidth was more based on offset rather then the VE table. total pain to get a steady idle, as when you apply load, RPM drops, air fuel ratio gets richer, causing it to drop RPM more, causing richer.. even a very slight change in offset would require massive changes to the VE table up to 3000rpm. according to the vendor documentation, they had a 1ms offset; had to run em with a .85ms offset to get it fired, and to pass the 2/4 squirt sanity check. which is why they are getting pulled out and replaced with hi-z, which can be driven full sequential from the ms3x, single squirt, closer to a linear 2ms idle pulse-width.

    the way it should be.
    "radar detectors are illegal in the Commonwealth of Virgina" "i bet cloaking devices are illegal too! good-bye!"

  9. #29
    Building Boost SVOTim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick View Post
    What makes you think that he is thinking about modifying hisSVO?
    Hum! Sounds like you got the skinny on this topic? Do suppose it doesn't have to be his SVO. When there are a few in the corral. Dunno, I don't really see him doing it, seems he really likes these cars just the way they are. Just that when I was leaving the last AutoX, he approached me and mention how well my car did and that maybe it's time to make some changes... maybe. Just throwing it out there. Hello Dave, Dave, any comments?

  10. #30
    Building Boost Alex L's Avatar
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    well, apparently i pissed someone off. my 'overnight' delivery from USPS, yeah, delayed till tomorrow. last time i got something shipped USPS overnight, it took em 3 days. @#$@#$ oh, and the boneyard, every single LS engine was picked or pulled clean. not a single @#$@#$ coil near plug harness/bracket to be found in the whole lot.

    so im pretty much screwed for this weekend. woo.
    "radar detectors are illegal in the Commonwealth of Virgina" "i bet cloaking devices are illegal too! good-bye!"

  11. #31
    Half Boost Raven855's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex L View Post
    it would work with 2 squirts, or 4 squirts simultaneous, but 2 idled much better. either way, injectors were too big, and the idle pulsewidth was more based on offset rather then the VE table. total pain to get a steady idle, as when you apply load, RPM drops, air fuel ratio gets richer, causing it to drop RPM more, causing richer.. even a very slight change in offset would require massive changes to the VE table up to 3000rpm. according to the vendor documentation, they had a 1ms offset; had to run em with a .85ms offset to get it fired, and to pass the 2/4 squirt sanity check. which is why they are getting pulled out and replaced with hi-z, which can be driven full sequential from the ms3x, single squirt, closer to a linear 2ms idle pulse-width.

    the way it should be.
    From my notes I have that for WesK who has the 83s, to get it to idle the offset was down around .5-6, pulse width was 1.1, 4 squirts. I ask this because I have a MS project in the works with the 80ish injectors. I have 1 more "technical" problem to get my arms around and understand before I am willing to move forward though. Want to get rid of those 83s?

  12. #32
    Building Boost Alex L's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raven855 View Post
    Want to get rid of those 83s?
    if the 60s work out the way i think they will, sure, but i don't wanna hear any whining about their idle quality. tfs-89083-1, low-z less then 10k miles, 2 and a half bills shipped. im sure they'd be sweet if you can run em semi sequential batch fire; even better if you've got an r-box and can run em full sequential (~60% DC feeding the HE341 @ 20psi @ 6000). my goals have changed over the years, and rather then flat out top end power with an option for e85 , looking for more drivability, responsiveness, and converter/boost flashability outta the hole at this point, with an end goal of 300-350 hp with a t4/3 evergreen hybrid special.

    you're not looking to buy a he341 as well are ya?
    "radar detectors are illegal in the Commonwealth of Virgina" "i bet cloaking devices are illegal too! good-bye!"

  13. #33
    Building Boost Alex L's Avatar
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    monthly update:

    jayme's 84 got a new fan controller circuit, alternator, and regulator. battery kept overcharging. still spewing oil into the intake, but its getting pretty routine to clean it out.

    my 84 blew out the intermediate band servo on the c4, spewed a few quarts of tranny fluid all over the hot exhaust. that was fun to clean up. replaced with a PA billet servo. talk about neck snapping shifts.. keep thinking the seat back is going to break when its shifted WOT. installed DIYAutotune boost control 'noid, but hasn't been dialed in. swapped the 1.9 out for the bo 1.5, and its much happier with the converter installed straight up, but still not flashing up on the footbrake.
    "radar detectors are illegal in the Commonwealth of Virgina" "i bet cloaking devices are illegal too! good-bye!"

  14. #34
    Building Boost Alex L's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    stupid dizzys... PIP exciter (or whatever the magnet assembly is called) retaining bracket decided to let loose. at least it conveniently broke down right in front of the markland dam visitor center parking lot.

    jayme's car was fine of course.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    "radar detectors are illegal in the Commonwealth of Virgina" "i bet cloaking devices are illegal too! good-bye!"

  15. #35
    Building Boost Alex L's Avatar
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    weee, new toys... t61 cold side/stg3 t3 turbine, .48 hot housing, with the usual charlie magic thrown in. inducer diameter is a bit bigger then what i was hoping for.. ill worry about the CP restirctor plates once someone throws the money to protest it.

    ps: yes, i went there. no more of this 'lets try and get a holset designed for a 6.2L truck engine to spool a 2.3L outta the hole' shenanigans.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    "radar detectors are illegal in the Commonwealth of Virgina" "i bet cloaking devices are illegal too! good-bye!"

  16. #36
    Building Boost SVOTim's Avatar
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    PROTEST!!!!

    Naw, not really. That there is a nice piece of work. Got it in the car yet? Doesn't look like I'll be making the 08/19/12 Autox event in Louisville. Hoping to make the last 2 points events. Good luck with the new Turbo.

  17. #37
    Building Boost Alex L's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SVOTim View Post
    PROTEST!!!!
    COUNTER PROTEST!! if i get bumped to XP, then im dragging you with me!

    not in the car yet, just got it in the mail yesterday. waiting on a new downpipe to arrive, and need to source the proper oil feed adapters. thinking next week.
    "radar detectors are illegal in the Commonwealth of Virgina" "i bet cloaking devices are illegal too! good-bye!"

  18. #38
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    (aka Anonymous) Club Member Patrick's Avatar


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    That's almost as big as Mitch's turbo.

    He had to notch the strut tower to make his turbo fit.

    I hear that the size of the turbo is an inverse proportion to the size of the ...

    never mind.
    "Just leave me alone. I know what to do" (Kimi)

  19. #39
    Building Boost Alex L's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick View Post
    That's almost as big as Mitch's turbo.

    He had to notch the strut tower to make his turbo fit.
    hrm.. well, the compressor housing is about the same size as my he341, and its got a fuzz under an inch clearance to the strut. worse case ill stick a anti-rock chain on it.

    its actually setup on the cold side to be sized for a big valve 2.5, but should work a LOT better then the he341 on my mostly stock setup. once the rest of the engine 'catches up' to the turbo, i can open the AR up on the housing from .48 to whatever if needed and run an external gate. picking up a turbocoupe shell that comes with 2 longblocks and a few extra heads later this weekend, have a batch of go-fast goodies coming in from bo, and a center mount log coming in (eventually....) from rivercityspeed. need to yank the 2.5 block / crank outta the barn and get it cleaned up and inspected. if the dual plug head isnt cracked, kinda want to go with it rather then a D-port for the symmetrical intake runners, but im not sure how well the LMDP heads take to the oversize valves. worst case i gut an E6 and intakes and call it a day. :shrug:
    "radar detectors are illegal in the Commonwealth of Virgina" "i bet cloaking devices are illegal too! good-bye!"

  20. #40
    What's that tapping sound?? Chalky's Avatar
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    is that turbocoupe an 87 or 88???

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