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Thread: Accidental SVO

  1. #21
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    Ha, stole a couple hours for the car today. Scraped off some undercoating in the trans tunnel and loose fit the MM k member today. I think I/m going to drill a couple of 1/8th alignment holes thru the k member into the chassis. This way i can take it on and off without having to go through the whole alignment process every time. I nope to position the k and test fit the engine with 1 and 2 inch setbacks this week.

    Stay boosted my friends,

    Chris

  2. #22
    Red Captain MikeFleming's Avatar
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    Iirc the standard MM k-frames have 0 and 1" back-set mounting slots in it.

    On the alignment part - do it at least twice to make sure you get the same location. It's a very critical setting.
    Helping SVO owners & racers since 1984

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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeFleming View Post
    Iirc the standard MM k-frames have 0 and 1" back-set mounting slots in it.

    On the alignment part - do it at least twice to make sure you get the same location. It's a very critical setting.
    Mike,

    You are correct on the set back. The 2 inch will require a custom offset motor mount. Question is how many new problems will that extra inch create?
    The alignment will defiantly checked several times by multiple sets of eyeballs.

    Chris

  4. #24
    Moderator Meotchh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dynoguy View Post
    Mike,

    You are correct on the set back. The 2 inch will require a custom offset motor mount. Question is how many new problems will that extra inch create?
    Chris
    1. Drive shaft will need to be custom cut & properly balanced.
    2. Hole in floor for shifter will need to be opened up, or if you are creative enough you can cut out the stock opening & weld it back in 2" further back in the floor. That will require further patching of the floor.
    3. Throttle linkages will require some changing.
    4. Clearance between the head & the FW will pretty much not exist moving back 2"
    5. Clearance between the DP & the FW will also require changes to the DP.
    6. Exhaust mounting hangers move, so the exhaust will require some customization
    7. Clutch cable mounting points will change but that is minor.
    Bout all I can come up with right now.
    There's nothing more to see here, now move along...

  5. #25
    Red Captain MikeFleming's Avatar
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    Even with only a 1" setback. MOST of these items will need to be addressed. Additionally the clearance between the bell housing and firewall/tunnel taper may get critical. If the tunnel area gets mod'd much then there may also be clearance issues with the heater box and other dash stuff. And it will get hotter inside.

    And the car will handle completely differently - with more weight off the front axle and onto the rear. So select spring rates AFTER it's almost completed and corner weights are known.

    Sounds like an interesting project though. Keep us posted and take lots of pics along the way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Meotchh View Post
    1. Drive shaft will need to be custom cut & properly balanced.
    2. Hole in floor for shifter will need to be opened up, or if you are creative enough you can cut out the stock opening & weld it back in 2" further back in the floor. That will require further patching of the floor.
    3. Throttle linkages will require some changing.
    4. Clearance between the head & the FW will pretty much not exist moving back 2"
    5. Clearance between the DP & the FW will also require changes to the DP.
    6. Exhaust mounting hangers move, so the exhaust will require some customization
    7. Clutch cable mounting points will change but that is minor.
    Bout all I can come up with right now.
    Helping SVO owners & racers since 1984

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  6. #26
    Moderator Bob Holmes's Avatar
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    Mines moved back more than 1".

    1,2,4,&5 on Meotch's list were an issue. Only 5 took some effort, we clearanced the firewall to allow the DP to fit. Since the exhaust is custom, that was not an issue. all we had to do for the head to firewall clearance was to section of the pinch flange.

    Hole in the floor for the shifter was easy. The tunnel has a plate for the shifter to stick through, I assume that the plate changes based on whether the car is an automatic or manual. I cut loose the spot welds, shifted the plate back and then persuaded it to take on the shape of the tunnel. I did not reweld it in, its held by 4 screws and some rivnuts.

    Its a mock it up and go for it kind of modification.
    Enough of that, it was giving me a headache.

  7. #27
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    Maybe I should post a picture of the interior :-}.

    Good list Meotch.
    This car is going to be a track toy/ occasional Saturday driver from here on out. I gets me in too much trouble driven on public roads with any regularity.

    All of the items on the list are fairly easy to remedy. The drive shaft has to be custom and or shortened for any setback over a half inch or so. The shifter hole is looks easy enough as long as you keep it within a few inches, thanks BOB for tip on moving the plate, I was hoping that would work. Throttle body and linkage will be changed anyway. Clearance between head to firewall will require some minor surgery. Its only the first cut that is scary. I don't think the dash or heater box will be an issue as they are located on the parts shelf. Since it looks like I will have to move next month I should probably post some of this stuff in the for sale section soon. The measurements I took for the exhaust indicate a center mounted turbo should give me plenty of room.

    Nobody picked up on what may be the crux of the matter. Will the accessories at the front of the motor mount up without brackets and such hitting the K member? Will there be enough room to keep the pulleys lined up? Hopefully Bob can comment on this. I can't remeber if his car used regular mounts or a motor plate. I want to move the alternator over where the A/C used to live anyway so why not make up something for the P/S while I'm at it.

    Mike, yes my goal is to alter the weight distribution and center of mass etc. I'm going to start with the 450lb coil overs in front, 325 in back and go from there.

    The current plan is to get the K member and front suspension installed so I can put the wheels and tires on to move it to our next home. The fun stuff is going to have to wait AGAIN.

    Stay boosted my friends,

    Chris
    Last edited by dynoguy; 08-29-2012 at 09:33 PM. Reason: clarity

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Holmes View Post


    its a mock it up and go for it kind of modification.
    That is a great way to put it Bob.

  9. #29
    Moderator Bob Holmes's Avatar
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    I'll look for a picture. Remind me, MM or Griggs or...K-member? Griggs requires you to section the oil pan to fit.

    My alternator is on the driver's side, I have no PS pump.
    Enough of that, it was giving me a headache.

  10. #30
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    Its a MM K member Bob.

    Chris

  11. #31
    Moderator Bob Holmes's Avatar
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    Having a little trouble finding what I was looking for. Here is a very early mockup.



    Here you can see the sectioning of the firewall.

    Enough of that, it was giving me a headache.

  12. #32
    Moderator Bob Holmes's Avatar
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    Here is where the alternator finally ended up:

    Enough of that, it was giving me a headache.

  13. #33
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    bobs firewall.jpg
    Thanks for the pics Bob. I can see where you have made some extra room near the passenger side frame rail at the firewall. I drew a red x in this location. Did you open up the area behind the cyl head at all? Below where I drew the red Y.

    Are you also using the MM K?

    stay boosted my friends,

    Chris
    Last edited by dynoguy; 09-02-2012 at 01:17 PM. Reason: added question

  14. #34
    Moderator Bob Holmes's Avatar
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    The AI rules allow modification to the firewall for exhaust purposes (As usual they found my interpretation excessive, but this time they didn't rule me out), but not for engine setback. So yes, the x to the left is where we sectioned the firewall. But, no, Y is not allowed. I did remove the pinch weld at about Y. If I hadn't I wouldn't be able to remove the cam cover.

    I run a Griggs. At the time, Griggs was winning everything. Today, I'd buy an MM.

    By the way, DO NOT, solidly mount the engine. At least if you want all the fillings left in your teeth. The combination of solid mounts, no harmonic balancer and a 9 lb flywheel means one very buzzy beast. We're changing to either Chuck's polys or stock replacement and a torque limiter.
    Enough of that, it was giving me a headache.

  15. #35
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    Ok the K member is in place.
    Thanks to my wife for helping measure it 5 times.
    I did drill a 3/16 hole on each side for alignment purposes in the future. I'm thinking of putting an aluminum rivet in the hole for quick visual inspection purposes.

    I also installed the caster/camber plates. Still need to install the coil overs and struts and knuckles. I currently have the wrong (94-94) knuckles. I'm hoping to have time to find or trade for the correct 96 and up spindles before i need to move the car. We dropped the engine in for a quick test fit in the 1 inch set back position. Looks like the egr/water tubes need to be removed or eliminated. I thought it would fit doh.

    Bob, thanks for the tip on the motor mounts. I was thinking of making them out of aluminum.
    "Stay boosted my friends"

    Chris

  16. #36
    Animated Italian Gigolo blueboss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Holmes View Post
    Remind me, MM or Griggs or...K-member? Griggs requires you to section the oil pan to fit.
    "section" is a kind word. If I remember the rant correctly, Griggs wants you to "whack your oil pan with a pipe or something" till the K-member fits.

    And.....cue Mitch.....ready.....3...2..1.....




    hundred posts.....ftw
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  17. #37
    Moderator Meotchh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blueboss View Post
    "section" is a kind word. If I remember the rant correctly, Griggs wants you to "whack your oil pan with a pipe or something" till the K-member fits.

    And.....cue Mitch.....ready.....3...2..1.....




    hundred posts.....ftw
    I hate you Scott! I was going to stay out of this but...

    Simply put, don't waste your time with Griggs. He is an a-hole & only wants your money. Yes they told me to resolve my problem, "whack your oil pan with a pipe". Sorry wrong answer.

    MM will tell you straight up what mods will need to happen if they have done it before themselves. If they have not, they will tell you that as well. MM will steer you right & they will stand behind their products. Nuff said.
    There's nothing more to see here, now move along...

  18. #38
    Red Captain MikeFleming's Avatar
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    The FOX 5.0 L MM K-frame that I installed into my red car has at least 3 " clearance from any engine component (and oil pan) and the tube frame (except for the mount brackets!). LOTS of clearance. And lots of free room around the starter motor.
    Helping SVO owners & racers since 1984

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  19. #39
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    Actually I know Bruce. A mutual friend introduced us while I was fine tuning a customers car at a Sears Point test day. We did a few laps in his red demo car. After the day was over he invited me back to his shop and we talked for hours. I have visited several other times prior to them moving out of the track and into town.

    I like and respect the man. I found him to be quite intelligent and down to earth. I'm sorry if you had a bad experience with his company but please lets not make personal comments here (in my thread at least). That being said, as I mentioned earlier I purchased the MM products for my car as I feel their foxbody components are superior.
    "Stay boosted my friends"

    Chris

  20. #40
    Moderator Meotchh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dynoguy View Post
    Actually I know Bruce. A mutual friend introduced us while I was fine tuning a customers car at a Sears Point test day. We did a few laps in his red demo car. After the day was over he invited me back to his shop and we talked for hours. I have visited several other times prior to them moving out of the track and into town.

    I like and respect the man. I found him to be quite intelligent and down to earth. I'm sorry if you had a bad experience with his company but please lets not make personal comments here (in my thread at least). That being said, as I mentioned earlier I purchased the MM products for my car as I feel their foxbody components are superior.

    Not trying to take over your thread Chris, just responding to it. If anyone wants feedback from those vendor experiences I'll gladly respond offline. I do agree with you Chris that MM foxbody components are superior.
    There's nothing more to see here, now move along...

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